Refreshed Tesla Model X issues: frozen camera, brake fault, high voltage system fault, etc.

[HankLloydRight]

One thing you don't understand is Software CAN cause hardware faults and Software CAN work around hardware faults. I do it ALL the time.

Now, some software work arounds and solutions you might not like, but software most certainly can deal with hardware issues.

For example on Model 3, the poorly designed HARDWARE for the windows that tended to freeze easily. What did Tesla do, when the temperature was low they didn't close the window all the way unless you were driving. Pretty clever. I hate that fix but it did help some folks with frozen windows.

Another one, was frozen charge ports. Again another hardware design flaw. What did Tesla do, they pulsed the latch periodically when the temps were cold. Again clever and again I didn't care for that fix either. But it avoided them replacing a lot of latches (Which they eventually redesigned).

Or the famous one that limits charge rates on certain batteries to prevent chances of fires. Users love that software update.

Or keeping the suspension lower to avoid design flaws in the shafts that vibrate. I'm sure your X has that feature too (both the Shafts and the Software the keeps it low).

So it could be a bug that is causing overheating or a hardware design flaw, you will never know and Tesla will never share that. But Tesla has tons of control over heating and cooling components. So a bug or work around that they may come up with might be good fix in software. This assumes it is an overheating issue, which you have zero proof of. All you see are symptoms that look similar to overheating, but you have no idea and just guessing.

If you hate the car that much, just get rid of it, while prices are good, and move on. Hint, don't post it on this web site.

We've disagreed on a few things in the past, but this time I wholeheartedly agree with everything you posted here. I was going to post something nearly identical.

It is most certainly possible to fix some hardware problems entirely with software. I've seen it done countless times and have even done it myself.

 

[DCGOO]

I'm a new owner: are such frequent updates normal?

I would not call it routine, but they can be frequent. The most I've ever gotten, is three updates within 24 hours. OTOH, it is just as unusual to go much more than a month or so withOUT an update. Right now, I have been on 2022.4.5.21 (FSD Beta) for several weeks.

 

[mr-dmitry]

Today the issue reproduced without driving at all. The interesting detail is that the car was honking on its own (another example of false input from physical controls), and then it activated Summon by itself (it’s disabled in the settings). Fortunately, it eventually failed.

 

[Maybe22]

Today the issue reproduced without driving at all. The interesting detail is that the car was honking on its own (another example of false input from physical controls), and then it activated Summon by itself (it’s disabled in the settings). Fortunately, it eventually failed.

Sounds like a car possessed —- mine still only acts up with supercharging otherwise it’s perfect …

 

[mswlogo]

Updates go in cycles. You might not get any for months the

Today the issue reproduced without driving at all. The interesting detail is that the car was honking on its own (another example of false input from physical controls), and then it activated Summon by itself (it’s disabled in the settings). Fortunately, it eventually failed.

Are you saying the car started driving by itself?

Are you running any apps on the car? If so disable them, change your account password to force them out.
Also might consider logging out/uninstalling the Tesla App and use FOB/Card Temporarily.

So much for the overheating theory if car was not running. Had it just been running? Or charging?

 

[mr-dmitry]

Updates go in cycles. You might not get any for months the


Are you saying the car started driving by itself?

Are you running any apps on the car? If so disable them, change your account password to force them out.
Also might consider logging out/uninstalling the Tesla App and use FOB/Card Temporarily.

So much for the overheating theory if car was not running. Had it just been running? Or charging?

It was charging at a ChargePoint station. The issues started after disconnecting the charging cable. It tried to drive on its own, but failed.

 

[mr-dmitry]

My patience has run out. Tesla hasn’t done anything to resolve the issue for more than a month. I’ll proceed with an official investigation by NHTSA.

 

[mswlogo]

It was charging at a ChargePoint station. The issues started after disconnecting the charging cable. It tried to drive on its own, but failed.

Are you often charging at ChargePoint stations? What wattage? Maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[mr-dmitry]

Are you often charging at ChargePoint stations? What wattage? Maybe that's part of the problem.

Yes, I am. This is the first time when charging at ChargePoint caused the issue. But today it was charging on the sun. This makes sense considering that the problem is caused by overheating.

 

[dannycamps]

Today the issue reproduced without driving at all. The interesting detail is that the car was honking on its own (another example of false input from physical controls), and then it activated Summon by itself (it’s disabled in the settings). Fortunately, it eventually failed.

I've been following this thread and I need to jump in here. This is not something caused by an overheating CPU. You have some kind of issue with your CANbus connection (maybe broken/crimped wire, electrical short, etc...) something that is causing your car to mixed signals. It's also possible you have a bad chip somewhere that is causing it so I'd recommend getting your MCU and FSD computer replaced as a starting point.

Regarding software affecting hardware, I'm a software engineer and I absolutely know that software can cause a CPU to overheat (I *may* have some first hand experience with this ). I also know that when a CPU overheats, it will throttle and eventually shut down/reboot as a safety measure. Likewise, it is possible (in certain cases) to patch hardware issues using software but if the hardware is flawed, it's better for it to be replaced.

It is certainly scary to have these things happen especially when you are not in the car and a NHTSA complaint is valid as it can be a safety issue however your first post was completely FUD-based and not constructive at all. The horn honking was probably your alarm being falsely triggered by whatever is going on with your car and not the physical controls being activated.

I do hope that you are able to get these issues resolved and that Tesla in general is able to figure this out sooner than later. One downfall of new hardware is that a design flaw can go undetected for a while (e.g. the original XBox360 with the bad solder that failed with heat).

 

[mr-dmitry]

I'm a software engineer and I absolutely know that software can cause a CPU to overheat (I *may* have some first hand experience with this ).

Please allow me to absolutely disagree with this statement. Hardware and the cooling system in particular must be built to tolerate any load that may come from software in a normal environment (e.g. not under direct sunlight). Otherwise, this is a flawed design that must never get to the market.

I know that, in the past, Intel built their CPUs according to this principle. I tested them myself to confirm that. AMD, probably, doesn’t follow it. And the refreshed Model X is using computer chips made by AMD…

Quite often, firmware controls the cooling system incorrectly - this can be resolved with a firmware update.

Likewise, it is possible (in certain cases) to patch hardware issues using software but if the hardware is flawed, it's better for it to be replaced.

True, but such software “solutions“ to hardware problems usually come with a price that I was not willing to pay after spending more than $100,000 on the car. And that was how Tesla tried to resolve the issue on their first attempt. They just reduced the CPU load with a software update without addressing the original cause of the issue in hardware. This was official information from them obtained from multiple channels. That was an awful attempt to fix that issue.

The horn honking was probably your alarm being falsely triggered by whatever is going on with your car and not the physical controls being activated.

I had the same issue with a constantly increasing volume. I tried to decrease it using a physical control, but it was increasing faster that I could input using the wheel button. Also I had the same issue with the paused and resumed playback every few seconds.

Next time, the car may open wing doors on other cars while driving. Or suddenly accelerate. Or steer out of the road. It did this once actually while driving 80 mph on a strait freeway with no cars. It steered right to a ditch. I was able to recover it in time. But the result could be different if it was a 2-way road. I assume, due to the issue, the car started a false accident avoidance maneuver. Though it‘s strange that it headed to the ditch for that…

I do hope that you are able to get these issues resolved and that Tesla in general is able to figure this out sooner than later.

Thank you. But the question if we can trust our lives to Tesla cars will remain even after we resolve this issue. In my opinion, just the existence of this issue might be revealing a serious underlaying design flaw. At least, it’s worth a serious investigation.

 

[mswlogo]

This thread is total FUD.

Now it’s AMD doesn’t deal with over heating but Intel does.

Totally off the deep end.

Folks try to help and you go deeper and deeper into the abyss.

It’s understandable Tesla probably knows what they are dealing with (i.e. you). And want no part it.

 

[mr-dmitry]

This thread is total FUD.

Now it’s AMD doesn’t deal with over heating but Intel does.

Totally off the deep end.

Folks try to help and you go deeper and deeper into the abyss.

It’s understandable Tesla probably knows what they are dealing with (i.e. you). And want no part it.

Your hatred is not justified. I wish you to have all the issues I had with your car.

 

[dannycamps]

Please allow me to absolutely disagree with this statement. Hardware and the cooling system in particular must be built to tolerate any load that may come from software in a normal environment (e.g. not under direct sunlight). Otherwise, this is a flawed design that must never get to the market.

We are moving well off topic here but it's a good conversation to have. I didn't say load (although poor software design can peg a CPU at 100% utilization causing it to overheat if the system cooling is not designed properly like you mentioned). In most cases, software (especially nowadays) should be able to run in a sandbox that provides an abstraction layer from the hardware but it's not always the case - especially in embedded systems.

As an example, I can download any number of CPU overclocking tools or even something like SpeedFan which allows software to control (or even disable) the cooling fans on a CPU which would easily lead to an overheating situation (yes the hardware has to support it but many hardware vendors do). Eventually, the built-in safeguards of the CPU would kick in and automatically shut down to prevent damage to the chip but you get the idea. It would not surprise me in the least to learn that Tesla is using software to control their CPU cooling (it just seems like something they would do). If the software is buggy then you can see how it can go wrong quickly.

When my car was first upgraded to the AP3 computer, the initial firmware load did not complete successfully (despite the fact that the service center received notice that it had). Some sensors/modules were not updated properly which led to them malfunctioning. This caused my car to incorrectly think I was driving off the road while I was perfectly in the middle of a center highway lane. Auto lane keep assist/corrective steering was activated and my car veered sharply into the lane next to me almost hitting another car. I know all too well how a software issue can completely mess with the hardware.

--

I also completely agree with you that these issues are incomprehensible on a car that costs well over $100k and can be quite unnerving especially when traveling with young kids in the car but starting off the thread with what was effectively along the lines of "your car will kill you and everyone you love" is a little over the top.

I truly feel bad for you and others that are experiencing these issues.

 

[mr-dmitry]

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[mr-dmitry]

Outdated feed from the backup camera, no signal from the side cameras:

 

[mr-dmitry]

False signal from proximity sensors:

 

[mr-dmitry]

Spontaneous activation of autonomous parking:

 

[mr-dmitry]

Spontaneous activation of the service mode. The car shows: "Do not drive. Improper use may cause damage or injury."

 

[mr-dmitry]

Brake fault and parking brake fault: