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Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by cinergi, Nov 14, 2012.
It is also a known fact that Lynyrd Skynyrd affects regeneration potential if played at eleven.
LOL! I'll try to keep it below 11 then.
I live on a small mountain that straddles suburbia and the country, all roads off are quite steep and long. A good friend let me drove his Perf config today, since I got my "Time to Finalize" email earlier in the day.
Got to punch it too. Still completely mind blowing to already be doing 30 going up a really steep hill, and then dropping the pedal! I think that might have felt even more impressive than going from a flat road, 0 to 60, fighting the uphill gravity as well... like a true rocket.
Then got to test the regen coming down the same hill at 30mph, and it was actually slowing the car down, and I think it would have brought it to a stop if I were to give it time. Regen maxed out 60kW, and I think the new 4.0 software limits projected range to 999 now. Road is 1.1 miles in length, but most of the hill happens in .6 miles of that. About 500' of elevation change.
That energy display tells the story on its own! Really dramatic ...
I had my first experience with temperature-limited regen a couple of days ago. It seemed like it took an excessively long time to reach full regen: I drove about 25 miles at highway speeds before the dotted orange line went away. Outside temp was about 28F.
I guess if you're looking for an excuse to drive, ah, 'spiritedly', this could be it. :biggrin:
Almost ditto here - did not get out of work until 8:30 - ambient was about 31-33, regen started at 13 - made 25 by home (25 miles away) but my dotted never went away. Never had full regen,but also missed every single stop light along the way, so it played almost a zero factor, oddly enough.
It could have been reduced traction that was limiting regen below the dashed line. If the car detects wheel slippage it will decrease regen.
Just got delivery (Model S P1866, VIN1604) Monday. Had full regen for the first 2 days, but limited to about 14KW today. Did not change in my two 7 mile trips. (Yes, I need to drive this baby more.)
While I agree that better communication is needed in the short term, eventually this is an issue that Tesla and any other EV companies will have to solve before EV's go mainstream. Everyone on this forum is a zealot, or at least an early adopter by definition. We're also quite technical (see earlier posts). This sort of change in the driving behavior of the car will be okay for us as long as we understand it, but the more casual users would be highly troubled by it, and it could be unsafe for some. The difference between 15 and 60 KW of braking when the pedal is release is a huge difference. In my opinion it is much bigger difference in driving feel than and ICE experiences. As evidence, when I called up tech support to ask about this today, the representative after explaining the issue to me and sensing that I was still skeptical of his answer, told me he was quite confident in his response because almost every owner has called with the question.
In the meantime, however, I will continue to absolutely love driving this totally rocking car.
1)I'm confident that it is in the owner's manual, so if the owner is unaware then it's their own fault as that goes. 2) My DES did tell me about it before it happened...seems like pretty good communication at least for that particular delivery. Also, it hardly impacts the driving experience at all, so I doubt there'll be many complaints related to it.
In the short term, I agree. Though I'm not sure what they can do other than just keep communicating - it's an artifact of the state of the art today in battery tech. Eventually everyone will just accept this like when the controls were finally standardized in the early days of cars - some had the throttle on the wheel, others on the floor, some brakes were operated by hand, some by foot, etc. EVs are a new dynamic so in the same way you have to be told not to rev an ICE too much when cold, you have to learn that regen is limited when cold.
I can't think of any ICE behavior that changes so dramatically as the loss of regen in an EV. Other OEM's somewhat avoid this by having less regen on the A pedal and putting it on the brakes. I still think a practical answer is to use software to engage the brakes in relation to the loss of regen to keep the same feel. As more and more of these cars hit the roads more of the general public will get handed the keys and may be caught unaware, and there will be accidents because of it.
Agree 100% with this. Don't know if Dallas will ever get cold enough for me to be impacted by this, but I want a car that provides predictable response from the pedals at all times.
No friction braking on pedal release for me please. I don't mind it as an option, as long as it is not forced. We have a Leaf, and with the current temperatures there are frequently NO regen at all for a while, even with only 80% SOC. Adjusting to this has quickly become second nature so personally I do not see the problem (and I always drive in eco with max regen). The thing I dislike most with the Leaf driving experience is having to use the brake pedal to get all the available regen. I vastly prefer Teslas approach here.
Limited regen is not really an issue (besides not getting power back when you're slowing)
You should be ready for hitting the brakes if you need them.
I think this issue can be mitigated by throwing up a warning message and alert tone when starting the car and it is in limited regen mode.
> As more and more of these cars hit the roads more of the general public will get handed the keys and may be caught unaware, and there will be accidents because of it.
Absolute NON-issue that requires NO response from TM Engineering. You have it backwards; NO regen is the DEFAULT for all ICE operators who *expect* to use their brakes when going down a hill.
I think the dashed line is clear enough.
For those that don't think agree, an icon on the dash (similar to the "your seatbelt isn't on") is plenty in my opinion. "The vehicle is operating normally but environmental conditions are triggering potentially surprising behavior."
The warning icon ("washer fluid low") should be reserved for "you just got an update didn't you?" and "vehicle needs service" type notifications, IMO. In other words, if it doesn't relate to servicing or updating of the vehicle it shouldn't get one of those ! notifications on the 17" (and below the speedometer). "The vehicle might be broken; consider having service done soon."
The difference is ICE behavior does not change while driving a particular vehicle. The noob S driver gets in, feels the strong regen on the A pedal, gets used to it, then suddenly next time they get in expecting it it's gone. I think at least a more strident warning is necessary, I have little faith in the abilities of some of my fellow drivers...
I'm noticing reduced regen today. It's not really that cold out, and there is no dotted line, but I'm not getting max regen. As someone who is used to one-foot driving, it IS disconcerting when I can't depend on a consistent response from my pedals (especially when there's no visual indication on the dash).
I like this solution
While it's fresh in your mind, can you please pass this information and a rough date-time for when you observed it along to one of your Tesla contacts in e-mail? Hopefully they can correlate this to telemetry data and/or pull logs from your vehicle to see what happened.
I'm curious whether it's a software/firmware issue, a sensor issue, or some other kind of malfunction.
This could be very valuable information in making all of our vehicles behave properly long-term.