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Rehoboth Beach, Delaware - Proposed 16 kW Charging Stations

Discussion in 'North America' started by Lanny, May 9, 2014.

  1. Lanny

    Lanny @Lanny

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    On Monday night, Professor Willett Kempton of the University of Delaware presented a proposal to locate free charging stations in Rehoboth Beach to the city commissioners. Some of them balked at the idea. The Mayor Sam Cooper said, “I’m agnostic on electric cars. If you want one, fine, but you got to know what you are buying. You can’t expect to be bailed out by the city of Rehoboth Beach."

    Dr. Kempton is leading a program in partnership with the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control (DNREC) to place a number of EV charging stations throughout the state at 50 mile intervals. These will be 16-kilowatt stations according to several news reports. The Delaware Beaches are a great location for a 16 kW destination charge.

    Listen to the presentation and comments by the city commissioners on this audio recording, starting at 0:16:00. Some of it is quite amusing.

    Here is a TV news story with video: Rehoboth Beach Considers Charging Stations for Electric Cars

    Some of the city leaders seem to think that nobody travels there in an electric car. I've driven there twice from the Washington, DC area and am sending an email letting them know.

    Here is contact info for Rehoboth Beach Mayor, Board of Commissioners & City Manager Sharon Lynn.

    Lanny
     
  2. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    Yes!

    We need more 16kW Level 2 stations - the decision by so many to go with 6kW is just ridiculous.

    Thanks for the update, Lanny!
     
  3. JST

    JST Active Member

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    So what does 16kW translate into--240V 70A?
     
  4. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    Thanks for posting this.

    I actually found the discussion to be quite good. I agree with many of the concerns of the city commissioners and found their reactions to be very reasonable.

    I think trying to do free public charging is not going to work. Also, the pitch needs significant refinement.
     
  5. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Something isn't right about their logic. They talk about EVs not being able to make it across the state of Delaware, but those short range EVs can't take advantage of 16kW charging. They're at most 6.6 kW for level 2 charging. The only car that can use 16kW is a Tesla with dual charger option. I'm all for high-amp level 2 charging, but for destination charging at a beach is it really necessary to have more than 10 kW (40A) charging? After all no one is going to drive to a beach and stay less than 3 or 4 hours, unless they live so close by that they don't need the charge.
     
  6. Lanny

    Lanny @Lanny

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    TexasEV

    I think the main idea of the Delaware network of charging stations is to facilitate travel within the state. But from the perspective of those of us living in the DC area who spend weekends or vacation there, it is a "destination charge." :biggrin:

    If they are going to install a Level 2, why not go with 16-kilowatt? My understanding is that the reason for the plethora of lower-powered 30 Amp stations is because of some quirk in the tax credit law when many of them were designed and installed. If it is technically possible and only marginally more expensive, then putting in high-amp L2 stations seems to be the smart way to go.

    Lanny
     
  7. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    As I said I'm all for high-amp level 2 charging. I convinced the people installing level 2 charging statIons in Fredericksburg, TX to install high-amp Clipper Creek CS-60 stations rather than the 30A Chargepoints they planned. The reason I think Rehoboth Beach may not want to go with 16kW is because at the beach, no one needs their car charged that quickly, and very few cars can take more than 10 kW anyway. For the extra cost of providing those circuits and charging stations they could provide more 40A charging opportunities. More stations would be more useful than fewer stations at 70A. It's like airport parking lots, why have a few level 2 charging stations when what they really need are lots of places to plug into 120v for people who are parked there for a few days.
     
  8. Ven Rala

    Ven Rala Member

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    Lanny,

    Thanks for the info. It would be great to have public chargers in Rehoboth. It is a complete EV charging desert at the Delaware beaches. I sent an email to the mayor and commissioners.
     
  9. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    #9 Curt, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
    And why stop there? I'm working to get more CS-100 stations out there, and would love to see 30Amp stations phased out entirely.

    I'm of the opposite opinion. The fact that most EVs today don't have the ability to use more than 10kW is not a good reason to avoid building for the future (and the more capable cars of today). If 70, 80, and higher Amp stations were common, EVs might be built with chargers that could make use of the extra watts. Until then, even the cars that only have 3.3kW chargers can use these stations, without holding the others back. My own car is over 5 years old, and can happily draw 70Amps on its standard charger.

    It would be great to go to Rehoboth Beach for the day, and have a full charge so I can go straight home in the evening!
     
  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    A limitation of the CS-100 is it can't accommodate the optional keypad payment mechanism. The CS-60 is the highest amp charging station Clipper Creek makes that will take the keypad. I don't know why. If a municipality or property owner needs to be able to charge for electricity, the CS-60 is the best they can do. That's why Fredericksburg ended up installing the CS-60 rather than the CS-100 that Tesla owners in Austin recommended. It's still a huge step forward from the overpriced and underpowered 30A Chargepoints
     
  11. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    Yes, roughly. Power = current * voltage. 240 V * 70 A = 16800 W, or 16.8 kW

    You may have noticed, however, that it's rare to see 240V when the circuit is under load. Also, depending on how it's installed, the nominal voltage may be 208V, not 240V. Typically public charging stations here are on 208V circuits, which drop to under 200V under load. 200V * 30 A = 6 kW.
     
  12. DaveVa

    DaveVa Sig Perf #236 VIN #484

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    Until the DE/MD beaches get public chargers installed, I'm happy to have anyone use my NEMA 14-50 in Bethany Beach. Just PM me.
     
  13. Lanny

    Lanny @Lanny

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    high Power J-1772 Charging Stations in Rehoboth Beach

    I have a bit of additional information to share on the Delaware charging station network that includes the proposed two high power J-1772 stations in Rehoboth Beach. The network is being designed to primarily support EV travel within the state with a secondary purpose as a destination charge facility.

    Willet Kempton, in his presentation to the City Board of Commissioners, argues for J-1772 charging stations that deliver maximum power (16 - 18 kW) by showing a slide that states, "high power charging station adds little cost, allows for and encourages faster recharge EV models."

    Here is the PDF of the entire slide deck from the presentation on May 5, 2014.

    Lanny
     
  14. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    Thanks, Lanny!

    The slide deck shows that they really thought this out.
     
  15. PV_Dave

    PV_Dave Member

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    Email sent to commissioners, informing them that I'm planning to drive my Tesla to Rehoboth Beach this summer and am disappointed in the lack of infrastructure there.
     
  16. Lanny

    Lanny @Lanny

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    The Rehoboth Beach Board of Commissioners met again on Monday to discuss the proposal to install the two high-amp charging stations in town. They have chosen a location at a park near the north end of the boardwalk next to the Henlopen Condominiums. There is a transformer within a few yards of city-owned parking spaces and the sandy soil will be easy to trench.

    The commissioners mentioned getting correspondence specifically from Tesla owners and asked if the charging stations would accommodate the faster charging speeds that Tesla's can handle.

    They are set to vote on Aug 15th whether or not to approve the installation of the stations. There is very little cost involved from the city, most of the funding is from a state grant. However, the board seems to be split.

    They issued a call for feedback from the public. If you haven't written yet, here is their contact info.

    I've also got more details here.

    Lanny

    Proposed Location of Charging Stations:
     
  17. ipryor

    ipryor Member

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    This is so timely. I just saw this post as I am sitting in Rehoboth Beach wondering when they are going to start installing public chargers. I currently travel here for business 2-3 times a month and I use a HPWC at the Hyatt Place in Dewey Beach to charge before I head home. These proposed public chargers in Rehoboth would be much more useful for me personally so that I can stay in Rehoboth and not have to charge in Dewey.

    I'm going to send an email to the commissioners and state our case. It will be interesting to see if the professor will succeed. I've had some conversations with him this year about this project and i'm happy to see them moving forward.
     
  18. JST

    JST Active Member

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    Here's what I sent:

    "I understand that you are currently considering a proposal to allow the installation of public electric vehicle chargers in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. As a resident of the Washington, D.C. area and an electric car owner, I urge you to permit the installation of these facilities.

    Electric vehicles are gaining in popularity and acceptance. Long range electrics, like the Tesla Model S, have reached the point where it really is practical to have them as a sole vehicle. Tesla’s expanding Supercharger network, and the efforts in neighboring Maryland to increase generally available public charging options, means that owners can take these cars on much longer trips than they ever have before.

    While these en route chargers are helpful, finding a charging option at your destination remains critical. This is especially true in a place like a beach town, where vehicle owners may be staying in rental properties that do not provide access to charging. For someone like me, who uses their electric car as their trip car, whether I can find “destination” charging may be the difference between picking one place over another.

    These chargers will thus be a clear benefit to the City of Rehoboth, as they will provide a strong incentive for electric car owners in the Washington, D.C. region and elsewhere to come to (and stay in) the city for their beach vacation.

    Finally, to the extent there is any question about what type of chargers to install, I would further urge you to encourage the highest amp J1772-compliant chargers available (meaning 70 amp or above). While only a limited number of electric cars can take advantage of high-powered chargers at this point in time, the battery capacity of new electric cars is only likely to increase. It thus makes sense to “future proof” the installation as much as possible.

    Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions."
     
  19. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    I suspect it's the size of the relay that takes up the space for the keypad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The public charging stations are 30 amp because that is what the standard was. There was a company that you may have heard of that petitioned the SAE to adopt up to 80 amps.

    In the mean time, this company used a 70 amp charge station for their car with a proprietary plug.
     
  20. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    Actually, that is what the PRIOR standard was. J1772-2001 used the rectangular (Avcon) connector, and was limited to 30 Amps. However, well before the roll-out of the current public stations, the J1772-2009 standard was adopted, which uses the round (Yazaki) connector. While most J1772 equipment is only certified to 30 Amps, the standard specifies up to 80 Amps.

    The real reason that most stations are 30 Amps is because of the flood of start-ups that took advantage of Federal grants to install public charging, and the minimum requirement for the grant was 30 Amps. Why do more than the minimum when you're using government money? :wink:
     

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