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Reinventing service...

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,661
867
Bay Area, CA
So besides the on-going and constant debate between the value of prepaid service and those that did/didn't and their reasoning...

Is there any definitive news about what reinventing the service paradigm and what that really means?

I figured we'd hear something when the presentation posted in the OP was shown to shareholders. Considering it's no longer January, I guess not. Maybe someone who is an investor should contact Jeff Evanson (VP - Investor Relations) to see what was meant by that slide.
 

Mario Kadastik

Active Member
Sep 5, 2013
2,189
1,396
Rae, Harjumaa, Estonia
I guess the unlimited milage warranty is for catastrophic cell failures which aren't exactly normal degradation or any other battery fsilures. The degradation in any case is very usage specific and hence harder to warranty under.
 

iffatall

Member
Nov 15, 2013
698
241
SF Bay Area, CA
I guess the unlimited milage warranty is for catastrophic cell failures which aren't exactly normal degradation or any other battery fsilures. The degradation in any case is very usage specific and hence harder to warranty under.

I agree. But my point is that rather than us having to guess what it might mean, I would much like them to be a little more specific. The generic claims are misleading, and surely misled people will feel scammed upon confronting reality.
 

chickensevil

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,139
261
Virginia, United States
I would (and did) do the same thing. But then when Elon says - you don't need the service, or that it is not worth €600 or whatever the number was in Oslo - I feel like I was scammed or at least betrayed. By the way, I got my car a month ago, paid for the 4 year service package, and obviously, haven't had any visits yet.

Why is it when the price goes up that is ok, because you paid less money for something, and oh well the new people should have bought in sooner... But when the price goes down it is now a scam. Just so you know the price of things dropping (contrary to what the federal reserve keeps trying to tell people) is a good thing. That means they are able to provide a better service/similar service at a cheaper cost.

just like them "removing" the mileage requirement on the service. Which people should be happy that was retroactive. I can sympathize that it sucks, just as it presently sucks that the car I am buying today (or whenever they finish building it) is a more expensive car than the car you bought last year for the same thing general features and such (please note that I did not include anything in my configuration that was not already available when they first released the car). So should I be screaming scam because I am being forced to pay a higher price?

maybe they will retroactively do something for those with service plans, but they are certainly under no obligation to do so. I hope for your sake they do, because it does suck, but I wouldn't go even remotely close to saying you were scammed. And also note that since we still don't know what or HOW it is going two change this is all speculation in the first place, and could be making a mountain out of a molehill.
 

gg_got_a_tesla

Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Jan 29, 2010
6,534
769
Redwood Shores, CA
Much as those of us who didn't get prepaid service plans have the option to do - that of taking in the car at whatever mileage and more importantly, whatever timeframe that we are comfy with - and pay $600 to get the full service done, I think it's only fair for Tesla to remove the 4-year (or 8-year) cap for the fully-paid service plans.

By paying up front, those folks gave Tesla plenty of money and deserve the discounted $475 full service at whatever periodicity they prefer. Locking them into the 4 year or 8 year windows and forcing them to make use of all their service visit "vouchers" doesn't sound fair.

I'm going to take my car in for the full service every 18-24 months or roughly every 24,000-32,000 miles. I don't see any need for a more frequent service visit. Prepaid plan holders should have the same flexibility.

Warranty repairs are what they are: fixing things that shouldn't have been broken - the same applies to TSBs (sorta' pseudo-recalls; yes, I went there). These should be addressed for free while the car's under warranty; that's the reason I went for the ESA for years 4-8.
 

pbleic

Member
Feb 4, 2014
230
8
Boston
Am I missing something here? I am a newbie who just put down a deposit. My biggest concern is a failure of a motor or ... in years 4-8. The car is really an unknown at this point. If I wait until my warranty expires, I pay $4,000 ( or whatever it is then, and I bet that is more). That sounds about right for the expensive components.

However, if I buy it when I get the car it is $3,800 - locking in the price AND I get 4 annual inspections for free? I don't have to worry about anything except tires for 8 years or 100K? Sounds like a no-brainier. What am I missing?
 

chickensevil

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,139
261
Virginia, United States
Am I missing something here? I am a newbie who just put down a deposit. My biggest concern is a failure of a motor or ... in years 4-8. The car is really an unknown at this point. If I wait until my warranty expires, I pay $4,000 ( or whatever it is then, and I bet that is more). That sounds about right for the expensive components.

However, if I buy it when I get the car it is $3,800 - locking in the price AND I get 4 annual inspections for free? I don't have to worry about anything except tires for 8 years or 100K? Sounds like a no-brainier. What am I missing?

There is a difference between service and warranty. I cannot tell you what would be "covered" under service, but bottom line you get the same service whether you pre-pay or not. The warranty is ONLY good till 36k miles minus the battery that is good for 8 years. So I assume if you have a motor failure after that initial 3 years/36k you will have to pay out of pocket no matter what.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,691
2,801
Model S new car warranty is 4 years - 50K miles, with the option of extending that to 8 years - 100K miles.

The annual service plan prepays the annual service visits at a discount, locking in the price (over a 4 or 8 year period, Tesla might increase the cost of those visits) - for 4 years/50K miles or 8 years/100K miles, though there have been postings online indicating Tesla might be eliminating the mileage constraint from the pre-paid service plans (which hasn't been officially confirmed by Tesla through changes to their website or the service plan agreements, which still include the mileage constraints).
 

chickensevil

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,139
261
Virginia, United States
Model S new car warranty is 4 years - 50K miles, with the option of extending that to 8 years - 100K miles.

The annual service plan prepays the annual service visits at a discount, locking in the price (over a 4 or 8 year period, Tesla might increase the cost of those visits) - for 4 years/50K miles or 8 years/100K miles, though there have been postings online indicating Tesla might be eliminating the mileage constraint from the pre-paid service plans (which hasn't been officially confirmed by Tesla through changes to their website or the service plan agreements, which still include the mileage constraints).

Sorry, your right, I must be out of it today... 50k/4 years... not sure where I got the three years from

Back to the pbleic, there are TWO different things you are looking at though. The ESA (extended service agreement) which is an extension of the warranty. Then you have the Pre-Paid Service Plans, which covers your "regular" maintenance.

Think about an ICE. regular maintenance would be like, oil change, breaks, fluids, etc. Warranty coverage would be engine failure, A/C dying on you, the door falling off. That is how it translates over to this car. The difference here is they cover all "consumables" minus tires in the service plan. But issues like door handles not extending, excessive wear on the B-Pillar, Creaking Pano Roof, A very loud sound coming from the motor... all that would be warranty repairs and would be why you would want to fork out the 4k for that.

Hope that helps clear it up.
 

pbleic

Member
Feb 4, 2014
230
8
Boston
Sorry, your right, I must be out of it today... 50k/4 years... not sure where I got the three years from

Back to the pbleic, there are TWO different things you are looking at though. The ESA (extended service agreement) which is an extension of the warranty. Then you have the Pre-Paid Service Plans, which covers your "regular" maintenance.

Think about an ICE. regular maintenance would be like, oil change, breaks, fluids, etc. Warranty coverage would be engine failure, A/C dying on you, the door falling off. That is how it translates over to this car. The difference here is they cover all "consumables" minus tires in the service plan. But issues like door handles not extending, excessive wear on the B-Pillar, Creaking Pano Roof, A very loud sound coming from the motor... all that would be warranty repairs and would be why you would want to fork out the 4k for that.

Hope that helps clear it up.
Doh. Of course. So, not such a good deal. Seems like waiting 4 years makes sense, and deciding then. As for the service plan, is it all about time value of money?
 

chickensevil

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,139
261
Virginia, United States
Doh. Of course. So, not such a good deal. Seems like waiting 4 years makes sense, and deciding then. As for the service plan, is it all about time value of money?

Not sure I understand the question. But I will try anyway. The idea behind it was that if you paid in advance you would potentially save money (especially if the price goes up). However given the latest comments from Elon about how the price does seem a little high, I would caution you to wait. Since I don't think you have your car yet, there is no rush to get the service plan. I would just wait it out until you get closer to when you MUST make a decision on it, since it is very likely to change *soon*
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,267
3,856
Chicago/Montecito
Doh. Of course. So, not such a good deal. Seems like waiting 4 years makes sense, and deciding then. As for the service plan, is it all about time value of money?

No. It's not just about time value of money. You should read the various service plan threads. Those of us who bought it are trying to find out what we got for our prepaid 4 years of service visits. It appears that any Tesla owner, even those who did not purchase the service plan, can bring their car in and get substantially the same updates done as "warranty" for free. I guess the service plan gets you new remote batteries, wipers, and eventually brake pads. There have been many hints from Tesla that there is going to be a big service announcement coming - hopefully which will clarify what you get with the service plan. Hopefully those of us who pre-paid will either get A) money back, B) longer coverage, or C) more included in our service visits (beyond what is provide for free to anyone under warranty).

If I were buying today, I would try to hold out on buying service plan until this service announcement is made. Problem with Tesla Communications is that they drop hints what's coming (great), but the when is always up in the air (frustrating).
 

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,661
867
Bay Area, CA
If I were buying today, I would try to hold out on buying service plan until this service announcement is made. Problem with Tesla Communications is that they drop hints what's coming (great), but the when is always up in the air (frustrating).
Given its presence here in the shareholder presentation, I really hoped we'd see this announced with their financials yesterday. We got the surprise connectivity announcement, but nothing about service...
 

chickensevil

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,139
261
Virginia, United States
During the TeslaRoadTrip event someone asked the Tesla Sales guy who was kind enough to be there (can't remember his name off hand) about service, and the only pieces I think that was really let on, was regarding the loaner fleet. Basically they realized after the fact, what they did made a lot of people unhappy, so they are being a bit more conservative about letting people buy a pre-built used car. He said right now, if you hopped in a car, said you loved it, and wanted to buy it that day, they would basically tell you no, because they just don't have any major stock to let any go.

So to that end at least things will be a bit better. He also said they were working on other alternatives because they also realize that not everyone needs/wants a loaner car, so they are seeing what else they can offer that might work for them. Their goal is to always make you feel like they are rolling out the red carpet for you every time you have to interface with the company to service your car.

That was about the gist of what I can remember from the discussion, nothing was said about the cost, or what else might be changing, but at least they are aware of how people feel, and are actively working to see how they can improve the service and make things better.
 

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,661
867
Bay Area, CA
That's good. Mine is actually in Sunnyvale for service right now and I got a loaner. It really makes a huge difference. Enterprise does their best, but it's just not the same. The loaner has a VIN in the 21xxx range, though, which surprised me. It's older than my car, but Sunnyvale didn't have a loaner fleet at all a month ago. Tesla must be moving cars around. It also has diamond lane stickers with a temporary registration (the stickers are tied to final license plates not temps), and tinted front windows, which are both unusual/possibly illegal in CA. It's almost like they bought it used from a third party, or took it in on trade for a new one?

But back on topic, I just want to know what's going to happen if they kill service (awesome) but have some people who prepaid for service, like me (not so awesome).
 

bareyb

Active Member
Sep 2, 2013
1,137
46
Silicon Valley, CA
/subscribed. I prepaid for four years too. I'll be interested to see how all this plays out. I consider Tesla to be a pretty ethical company with the good of the consumer in mind. I feel certain they'll do whatever it takes to make this fair for everyone.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,083
1,243
So Cal
Problem with Tesla Communications is that they drop hints what's coming (great), but the when is always up in the air (frustrating).

Agreed, but I've learned that the real problem with communications is that Tesla does not always live up to their own self-induced hype by failing to deliver on promises.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,267
3,856
Chicago/Montecito
Agreed, but I've learned that the real problem with communications is that Tesla does not always live up to their own self-induced hype by failing to deliver on promises.

I know you and a lot of people feel that way - especially you because you say it so frequently. For my part, I actually prefer that they are aspirational, aim high, and occasionally fall short. That's how we got this impossible ride to begin with. Some think they should change now that they're large, institutionalized, customer-ized, and publicly held. I remember the same rationale when Apple hired a guy from Pepsi, booted out Jobs, and then went in the tank - until they got Jobs back and became aspirational again. Yeah, I know you're going to say Apple still didn't over-promise. But I hope you get my drift.
 

gg_got_a_tesla

Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Jan 29, 2010
6,534
769
Redwood Shores, CA
For my part, I actually prefer that they are aspirational, aim high, and occasionally fall short. That's how we got this impossible ride to begin with. Some think they should change now that they're large, institutionalized, customer-ized, and publicly held. I remember the same rationale when Apple hired a guy from Pepsi, booted out Jobs, and then went in the tank - until they got Jobs back and became aspirational again. Yeah, I know you're going to say Apple still didn't over-promise. But I hope you get my drift.

+1. Well said.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,083
1,243
So Cal
I know you and a lot of people feel that way - especially you because you say it so frequently. For my part, I actually prefer that they are aspirational, aim high, and occasionally fall short. That's how we got this impossible ride to begin with. Some think they should change now that they're large, institutionalized, customer-ized, and publicly held. I remember the same rationale when Apple hired a guy from Pepsi, booted out Jobs, and then went in the tank - until they got Jobs back and became aspirational again. Yeah, I know you're going to say Apple still didn't over-promise. But I hope you get my drift.

Absolutely, and it's fine by me that you feel that way. However, IMHO aiming high and falling short on promises once the car is in production are two separate things. Let's take an example:

JB was quoted as saying that within a few years it will be possible to recharge a Model S in 5 minutes. Obviously not the current gen, but a subsequent iteration (MS 2.0). What happens if they fall short? I don't think many will complain and I certainly won't because that's just the price you pay for aiming high.

Contrast that with the following example:

Tesla tells everyone that currently has a Model S that a software upgrade will enable a 33% increase in supercharging speed. That enhancement later turns out to only apply to certain folks, and Tesla very well knew all along that they wouldn't be releasing the upgrade to these folks and intentionally decided not to mention this fact. A large debate ensues because several owners feel they were misled.

No need to agree with me here as I already know that there are several early adopters that feel very similarly. I merely felt compelled to point out that it isn't too unimaginable to "have your cake and eat it too" in this instance.
 

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