Remote Temperature Monitoring

[WannabeOwner]

Nothing to do with Tesla, but as some folk here seem to be into Home Automation and the like I thought I would ask.

I want to know what the temperature is in my greenhouse ... so that when I forget to open it I get an alert (and some other temperature scenarios I either want to alert, or just record).

(Automatic openers, such as expanding-wax, aren't suitable)

I'd like outside temperature and greenhouse temperature (soil temperature would be nice too, but that changes so slowly that a soil thermometer manually recorded once a week is probably fine ... albeit rather old-school)

Greenhouse is a decent distance from the house and line-of-sight obscured by a thick, tall, hedge. I'm doubtful that WiFi would work ... but it might.

I have power in the greenhouse (maybe ethernet-over-power-cable would work, house wiring is complicated, so the greenhouse circuit might not be shared such I could usefully locate the house-end Ethernet adaptor - I probably should try that though).

I want to log the data to my PC, not to a Cloud service that I have to pay for (and/or a recurring cost for the mobile-connector thingie), but tell me if I'm daft and that IS the solution

I've looked at Weather Stations - they often have an Indoor and Outdoor temperature probes. Can find one that is sophisticated and provides logging, but doesn't use mobile connection. There are brands suitable for a "DIY" route where all components are individually sourced, but requires a fair amount of work to build and program etc. I have the skill but not the time, so would much prefer a plug-and-play solution. So DIY which needs more than an hour or two of effort is my last resort.

 

[mvrlogins]

Your best bet is a Raspberry pi with multiple temperature sensors connected via GPIO and Pushover.net to send alerts. I had built something like this for a sous vide cooking system, and it only took a couple of hours once the parts were in. There's a lot of useful code on the internet so it doesn't need much other than tweaking.

The internet/network connection could be done via PLC if the greenhouse is in fact on the house wiring. There's line of sight wifi boosters from the likes of Unifi, but that can get expensive.

 

[pgkevet]

So long as house and greenhouse are on the same phase then powerline adapters should work. It doesn't need to be on the same ring circuit. If you have 3-phase coming in and use different phases then , yes, gets complicated figuring which is which. I'm not in to home automations stuff but it should be fairly trivial to choose a system and fit compatible sensors and alarms.
What are you growing that's so critical? (They don't call it weed for nothing )
I have grown some exotic stuff in the past including bananas, pineapple, citrus and orchids. Usually more of a problem keeping the humidity right in winter than temperature...

 

[Irata]

You could use a Netatmo weather station with the one of the sensors (either the indoor or outdoor one) within the greenhouse. It is wireless but doesn't use WiFi for the sensors and the lower radio frequency it uses may work.

Smart Home Weather Station | Netatmo

Access your Smart Home Weather Station’s readings in real-time on your smartphone and discover all the secrets of your environment.

www.netatmo.com

This will provide some logging by itself. However, it does have an API. If you want really advanced logging features and automation, you can link it to home assistant.

Home Assistant

Open source home automation that puts local control and privacy first. Powered by a worldwide community of tinkerers and DIY enthusiasts. Perfect to run on a Raspberry Pi or a local server.

www.home-assistant.io

You can easily run home assistant on an old laptop, old pc, a cheap Raspberry PI - most things really. It has a friendly web interface and it is very easy to setup, with lots of community support.

 

[Adopado]

So long as house and greenhouse are on the same phase then powerline adapters should work. It doesn't need to be on the same ring circuit.

Indeed, I was able to connect to the cottage next door so doesn't even necessarily need to be coming through the same consumer unit.

 

[BMW740iL]

You could use a Netatmo weather station with the one of the sensors (either the indoor or outdoor one) within the greenhouse. It is wireless but doesn't use WiFi for the sensors and the lower radio frequency it uses may work.

Smart Home Weather Station | Netatmo

Access your Smart Home Weather Station’s readings in real-time on your smartphone and discover all the secrets of your environment.

www.netatmo.com

This will provide some logging by itself. However, it does have an API. If you want really advanced logging features and automation, you can link it to home assistant.

Home Assistant

Open source home automation that puts local control and privacy first. Powered by a worldwide community of tinkerers and DIY enthusiasts. Perfect to run on a Raspberry Pi or a local server.

www.home-assistant.io

You can easily run home assistant on an old laptop, old pc, a cheap Raspberry PI - most things really. It has a friendly web interface and it is very easy to setup, with lots of community support.

or use the Netatmo thermostat. You can misuse the on/off switch to close/open your glass house instead of turning on/off a gas heater as its intended purpose. Comes with a nice app showing temp history and when the switch was turned on

 

[WannabeOwner]

I had built something like this for a sous vide cooking system

Hahaha ... didn't think of that, thanks. Although my Sous Vide did all that out of the box ... I read an article from someone who said "I want to start my Sous Vide from work, but my work finish time is very unpredictable, I'm not comfortable leaving food at home all day "waiting". Answer? Freeze the food in a block of ice and leave that in the Sous Vide, and when you start it (remotely) add some extra cooking time in case it still has to thaw!

So long as house and greenhouse are on the same phase then powerline adapters should work

That's good to know, thanks. Definitely single phase here ...

What are you growing that's so critical?

Vegetables and cut flowers. It a big greenhouse (ex-commercial, prime real estate in middle of town, it made way for millionaires-row housing, bought it for peanuts, but it did involve some "relocation" )

We grow 80%, maybe more, of the veg we eat. Now pretty much all of it under glass. No longer have to rush out when I see the 10PM weather forecast and we get a late frost in May and put a torch in my mouth and try to cover the spuds with fleece or find some lawn mower clippings. And the cut flowers for the house blooms don't get rained on.

Trying to be Eco and going for food-metres to replace food-miles

They don't call it weed for nothing

Indeed ... its a nice high value cash crop I have racks of stainless steel shop shelving (amazing stuff, cheap and incredibly robust, and flexible to change shelving position etc.) and some "cannabis lights". Raise all the young plants there, temperature and light guaranteed, and no rats eating my spuds etc. Much more predictable than early Spring light levels, and heating a greenhouse seems to me the same as just putting a 3-bar-fire out in the open air and contributing to global warming ... literally!

bananas, pineapple, citrus and orchids

We have an orangery to house things like Bananas (ornamental) over winter. Haven't done Pineapple (space to yield ratio puts me off - the kitchen would expect a couple a month!), but we have other exotics and a part of the garden where they go out for the Summer.

You could use a Netatmo weather station

Not come across that one, thanks.

You can easily run home assistant on an old laptop, old pc, a cheap Raspberry PI - most things really. It has a friendly web interface and it is very easy to setup, with lots of community support.

Thanks. @dakaix recommended Home Assistant and/or Node Red in another thread (looking for something to set up API stuff to figure when PowerWall at say 95% and start charging the car rather than Zappi waiting to see Export before doing that)

I'll take a look.

I was able to connect to the cottage next door

They won't be interested in the Excel Temperature Graph, just the Over Production Graph so they get an alert to request "Spare Veg"

 

[Adopado]

No longer have to rush out when I see the 10PM weather forecast and we get a late frost in May and put a torch in my mouth and try to cover the spuds with fleece or find some lawn mower clippings.

Head torches are a wonderful invention for hands free working in the dark!

 

[pgkevet]

I have a lot of land here and grew all sorts of stuff but age and backache makes weeding no fun. I gave up growing cheap stuff like spuds due to the workload earthing up and digging - endemic scab meant to chucking nearly half the crop and then looking after 5 50kilo sacks for a years supply...you can buy a 20kilo sack for under a tenner locally. Now it's mostly bush and tree fruit, toms, peppers,cues and asparagus. Even things like lettuce a pain with constant resowing and half bolting before you can eat it all. I do a big sweetcorn patch but battle with pheasants and badgers that end up with more than half. At least tractor and PTO rotorvator make it easy.

 

[init6]

If you don't want to record there are plenty of this type of remote sensor:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oria-Thermometer-Wireless-Temperature-wall-mounted/dp/B07JMDVP8G/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3CE195BOXFAPQ&keywords=remote+temperature+monitor&qid=1650274285&sprefix=remote+temperature%2Caps%2C56&sr=8-5

I've done the Pi, Arduino lark and sometimes simple is best.

 

[MrBadger]

I’ve seen your blog… this should cover any location in your ‘garden’…

I use Lora for very low power telemetry from an electric car we ‘race’. Although it’s not yet raced on that car in anger, other mobile tests (without paying any attention to the short antenna placement) has been 500-1000m in quite varied terrain and in a car travelling ~30mph.

So that should work for you and whilst there are cheaper solutions, it’s not particularly expensive. Just make sure you go for a solution and duty cycle that keeps you within licensing limits.

Data acquisition dashboard and transmitter (small vertical PCB bottom left)


Mobile receiver. Probably the level of complexity as your project.


Both powered from a USB battery that will probably last most of a day for transmitter/dashboard and several days for receiver so you will need external power.

 

[WannabeOwner]

If you don't want to record there are plenty of this type of remote sensor

No, no, no ... I definitely want to record, I've persuaded myself that and spent ages trying to find a solution ... <Ding!> ... hang on a mo, you are absolutely right!. If I can look at the "Little Screen Thingie" in the house and see what the greenhouse (and outdoor) temperature is I can take a decision about go-there-now or delay.

Good idea! and thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious. And, if nothing else, I can get that "tomorrow" and work up a longer term solution over ... the longer term

Much obliged

I do have some USB recorders, so actually I currently do do temperature recording, just not real-time and have to download to be able to use it. But that's the Analysis problem, which as you quite rightly surmise is a different problem to the "Remotely view the current status" one.

(The USB thingies are from medical use - accompany medicines shipped that require temperature control - maybe just an ice block - to check they didn't exceed Max temperature. They are multi-use (software to download / reset them) but I suspect they quite often get used for single-use (too much hassle tor return them) and, as such, come up on eBay. I bought a box of a dozen or two. Useful, for example, to put on radiators around the house to balance them - figuring out what gets hot first, and how tepid the most remote one is ...)

I use Lora for very low power telemetry

mobile tests ... has been 500-1000m in quite varied terrain and in a car travelling ~30mph.

Sounds promising, thanks. I'll take a look.

I have a lot of land here and grew all sorts of stuff but age and backache makes weeding no fun. I gave up growing cheap stuff like spuds due to the workload earthing up and digging

Gardening has been my hobby "forever", and after I bunked off Skool I started out on a horticultural career.

We do no-dig (although in my case that is most definitely not "never disturb the soil"). I agree with you, a big bag of spuds from the farm gate, where the farmer has perfect cool-storage to look after them during the winter months, are dirt cheap and little reason grow my own maincrop spuds. However, 1st early New Spuds are special (and like Sweetcorn the moment you pick them the sugar starts turning to starch, so travelling a day or two to the shop, and then bought and stored-and-used for a week is a very different proposition to "Took the pan of boiling water to the veg patch" - Actually, NO, I do NOT do that!) Guests remark on how tasty my veg is ... there isn't any secret, they are just really really blinking fresh.

Although ... it always amazes me how many varieties are available to an amateur grower. if you buy a Tomato in the supermarket there are probably only a couple of varieties to choose from - a cherry and a bigger one. And maybe a massive beefsteak one. And then some expensive cherry-ones-on-the-vine. The growers and supermarkets choose varieties that ripen evenly, yield well, are disease resistant, nice thick skins so they don't bruise when the spotty-youth tips the big box onto the supermarket shelf. And last for ages when you get them home. "Taste" isn't on that list ...

... whereas I can choose from loads of different varieties and, over the years, we have tried different varieties and have chosen the ones we like the taste of. (actually I grow 8 different Tomato varieties) That's it. I don't care about yield or disease, I have plenty of space so I just plant a few extra. A bit like having to give my my excess PV to the grid for tuppence-ha'penny my excess veg goes to neighbours.

We also grow some varieties we like - Pink Fir Apple spuds for example. (Who thinks up these names? I mean ... how is that a Potatoes? And Cox's Orange Pippin an Apple?). So we do grow a few maincrop which aren't readily available in the shops. But in my storage they'll be sprouting by XMas ...

I haven't succumbed to it yet, but mates who do a spectacular jobs of growing veg only ever grow their spuds in 30L pots, 2 seeds each. Uses loads of compost of course, but they reuse that for 5 years or so with a dash of BF&B. Pots stood on bed so the roots come out of the pot. Harvesting is easy, and the spuds have no scab.

If you are still tilling maybe worth looking at lower input methods? I'm sure you know all about No Dig, but if not Charles Dowding is probably the leading light.

For Lettuce we mostly grow frilly varieties, and just pull off a leaf or two of each of 6 - 10 plants for the meal for the two of us. I also sow continuously - 3 or 4 Coz and Iceberg lettuce on 1st and 15th of the month (for when we have parties / bigger gatherings), and 4 Cauli seeds - they won't stand for more than a fortnight.

I would describe my process as very labour intensive in the early stages - everything raised in containers, under lights. But that's indoors. I can do it at midnight if I want to, and there is a fair bit of tolerance for exactly when I fit that in. I haven't got to fit in with the weather!

But after I have planted out there is pretty much nothing to do until harvest. Beds are mulched - either carboard or Mypex - no weeding to speak of. Leaky-hose along the beds, so no manual irrigation. So by about 1st June I'm done with plant raising, and can enjoy the summer entertaining rather than labouring And then another, smaller, burst of plant raising starting in August to get things ready for planting out for the Winter.

 

[pgkevet]

Of course aware of no-dig. But not really practical at scale. I ploughed up a couple of 1/4 acre patches to start and despite losses etc had enormous quantities and varieties of all the standards but creating enough mulch and chip for that lot is also hard work to impractical. It takes me enough time keeping the other 50+ acres tidy.
As for toms.. well I only grow Golden Sunrise these days. But I have 40 or 50 fruit trees (I lose count - might be more) and a dozen each blueberry/red/black/white currants so the freezers get filled from the ones I cage. I did have 8 farm wagon loads of woodchip last autumn from my hedges which mulched the trees and soft fruit but I find it knackering these days processing that sort of quantity. It takes long enough to trim the lawns with a 6ft mower and as for topping the slopes with a small tractor at walking pace can take a week at 2-3 hrs a day. 10yrs ago it wasn't a problem...

 

[init6]

Good idea! and thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious. And, if nothing else, I can get that "tomorrow" and work up a longer term solution over ... the longer term

If you have the skills, over-engineering is easy to do. Most of us enjoy the tinkering so it's not really seen as an impediment. But, sometimes you need to go back to basics and define what you're trying to achieve rather than what you are able to achieve.

I didn't google too much this time but I'm sure I saw remote temp sensors that had an alarm built-in e.g. if it gets too hot/cold. That might save you having to keep checking the temp.

I do have some USB recorders, so actually I currently do do temperature recording, just not real-time and have to download to be able to use it. But that's the Analysis problem, which as you quite rightly surmise is a different problem to the "Remotely view the current status" one.

(The USB thingies are from medical use - accompany medicines shipped that require temperature control - maybe just an ice block - to check they didn't exceed Max temperature. They are multi-use (software to download / reset them) but I suspect they quite often get used for single-use (too much hassle tor return them) and, as such, come up on eBay. I bought a box of a dozen or two. Useful, for example, to put on radiators around the house to balance them - figuring out what gets hot first, and how tepid the most remote one is ...)

Ooh, now you've piqued my interest. Loads google...

 

[WannabeOwner]

Of course aware of no-dig. But not really practical at scale.

Indeed. I enjoy YouTuber Red Gardens. He's only got a few acres, but his problem is getting enough organic material (no manure sources etc. nearby to him). Clearly your holding would need a mountain of organic material; I think it will be interesting to see how intensive agriculture weans off the fertilisers they've been using for a generation.

I've only got a small patch, but glad to say I've got rid of the PTO topper mower (and the tractor) and replaced them with Robot Mowers. Most of my grass was lawn anyway, with just a few areas of "hay crop" type grass, i.e. not cut very often, because keeping it as lawn was too much effort. But my Topper Mower had to be driven in 1st gear and was a slow process ... and then "pick it all up" (although that did make a decent amount of compost). Now the whole lot is Robo-Mowed, and I just have my feet up

If you have the skills, over-engineering is easy to do

I'm probably mis-quoting but Henry Ford said something like "Simplificate and add lightness" whereas I am much more "Complexify and add heaviness"

Ooh, now you've piqued my interest

Mine are LogTag

 

[init6]

I'm probably mis-quoting but Henry Ford said something like "Simplificate and add lightness" whereas I am much more "Complexify and add heaviness"

Coincidentally, I saw this on Reddit last night and thought of you

https://www.reddit.com/r/FunnyAnimals/comments/u6dqbg

 

[WannabeOwner]

Amazon not delivered my cheap-cheerful weather station yet, but its due today So I can make a start with that ...

Rethinking the project a bit ...

I've found an Arduino board (bought in 2018 ... never used). I didn't buy any temperature sensor with the kit, so I'd need some - the sort on a flying lead might be best for moist environment, I was thinking of stretching one outdoors and the other inside the greenhouse - shaded from direct sun.

That would need a USB-to-mains adaptor. And a Arduino CAT5 adaptor (which I did buy, but cannot now find ... the one I bought is discontinued, so buying the latest model might be prudent).

Next up I've ordered a pair of powerline adapters. I went for the Gigabit ones as it occurs to me that I might want to add a CCTV feed too.

The vents are rack-and-pinion, one each side. Currently chain-driven (manually). I do have some motors for those, but no idea if they work. Either way being able to implement some control gear at a future point would be good. And probably a "closed" and "fully open" microswitch

So seems that that lot (and maybe soil temperature, moisture, humidity, etc.) is going to need a CPU board of some sort.

Looking at Home Assistant - I didn't find a plug straight-into-CAT5 temperature sensor. I may not have looked hard enough, but seemed that the sensor (e.g. SONOFF TH10) needed something like a Zigbee bridge, maybe local WiFi too. I'm concerned about how a bunch of such kit might fare in the cold / damp greenhouse conditions, and how big an enclosure it would need - and if "sealed" against moisture the temperature of that box is summer if no ventillation.

I figured the Arduino could just be shoved into a waterproof box, particularly if the sensors are on flying leads rather than just micro-PCBs

I'm competent to do this including some soldering and definitely the software part. Provided it isn't too big a time / research consumer.

Given I've never used either the Arduino I already have, nor Raspberry PI - which do I need?

I'm a Microsoft programmer - so anything WIMP is fine.
I hate Unix / Linux. I hate having to install / mount anything on it.
I hate having to compile code before I can use it. I don't really want to be coding in C / C++ ... anything interpreted would suit me better

Not sure which are the worse of the evils here! Maybe an IDE where I can use something a bit higher level would be the answer.

I need some help on whether e.g. Home Assistant is a better approach than Raspberry-PI. I have no experience of either, so would appreciate any advice. Speed of getting a solution operational more important to me than a few £quids. The hardware needs to be happy to be in the cold / damp environment though (or suitable waterproof box if that will do / not overheat, but that may be more restrictive on overall bulkiness of the various bits - Raspberry PI route seems to me to be more compact)

 

[WannabeOwner]

If you don't want to record there are plenty of this type of remote sensor:

Sorted ... although ... right on the edge of network reach and when cold it drops out. But I've solved that, low tech, by putting it on the bird feeder, half way, and putting some binoculars by the window

Bonus: Found these when I went over to the greenhouse to position the remote sensor

 

[Adopado]

View attachment 796035

Sorted ... although ... right on the edge of network reach and when cold it drops out. But I've solved that, low tech, by putting it on the bird feeder, half way, and putting some binoculars by the window

View attachment 796033

Bonus: Found these when I went over to the greenhouse to position the remote sensor

I thought the suggestion was for a raspberry pi …

 

[WannabeOwner]

I thought the suggestion was for a raspberry pi …

Yup! Only implemented Low Tech Pie so far ...