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Removable / swappable pack options?

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roblab:

That's because "such swappable battery packs" idea just stinks.
It sounds cool until you start to think about it and read a thing or two about batteries.

Exactly. Thats why generic battery swap stations just won't work in practice.

But swappable batteries are useful nevertheless. You buy an electric car and pay for the battery or lease one or both of them. Both, car and battery are yours but you can still go and rent a bigger battery when you think you're going to need it and swap it with yours. Your battery is stored at the battery-rent center and is waiting for you to return the rented one.

Yes, I think Tesla's model is closer to renting than what was previously mentioned. You get your battery back after your rent, not someone else's battery.

Again the only way generic battery swapping will work is if there is some kind of subscription fee (leasing or Better Place's pay by the mile plan) so you don't own the battery.
 
I read/heard/watched somewhere (sorry can't remember where) Elon saying it was equivelent to a $35,000 gas guzzler and that you could have the option to "feel the benefit straight away by leasing".
I think when he said that, he meant with respect to cost of ownership. Money you would save on gas and also that the mechanically simpler car should depreciate less. That lower level of depreciation would be reflected in the cost of the lease. That was the argument I took him to mean anyway. I think it's on one of the videos I took at the Model S LA party.
 
I personally don't get it.
If I treat my battery pack gently, I might get twice the life. If someone else runs his pack to zero every other day, and charges it full with a quick charge every time, both known to lower a pack's life, all he has to do is go to the swap station??? They'd better have a way of telling what condition the battery is in and CHARGE for the deterioration somehow. And NO way am I going to want to swap my cared-for battery with anyone's throw away swap. If it's worth $35K why are we rewarding someone who's trashing it??
Rob

You are still considering it from a perspective in which you've paid for the battery pack. "my battery pack" wouldn't apply if you were swapping them regularly, and had a guarantee that you'd never get a battery pack that had been depleted past say 80% usability. Tesla could (and I imagine certainly would) easily monitor deterioration of the battery pack on each swap and assign the amount of deterioration to a user and charge them appropriately. All these things are relatively minor issues.
 
I suppose this topic needs a few mentions of battery swap ideas from days past.

(VFX had posted this link before)
GreenMotor: Mercedes: battery swapping is so last century - green car and electric vehicle blog - formerly Auto-IT.co.uk
mercedes-battery-swap-small.jpg


JMC 1997 proposal for battery swapping
 
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Another old mention of battery swap here:

Sounding Circle: Li-Ion tzero Electric Vehicle
17 Oct 2003 @ 11:09 by waalstraat
I probably shouldn't give this away free but I am not that materialistic. It seems to me everybody has missed the boat on electric cars...sorry about the mixed metaphor. What they should do is place the batteries in an easily removeable position (removeable by some type of robot)than revise their ideas of filling stations. You would pull in next to a bunch of cabinets with filled batteries and shelves for weak or empty batteries. You robot would activate when you parked in the proper position, lift your battery out, measure how filled or empty it is and replace it with a filled one. You would be charged for the difference between your trade-in battery and the filled one...after you left, your trade-in would be moved to be charged up or it would be charged up in place....of course this is a rough idea and would have to be refined...Don't thank me yet world...I'm sure someone will find a flaw in the scheme or paradigm.



 
Tesla Model S Added to List of Battery Swap Capable EVs - All Cars Electric
...the Model S engineering, "Is not at all wedded to Better Place." Instead, stating that the design of an easily removable battery also makes the installation process at the factory easier, likely reducing costs...

REPORT: Tesla Model S was designed with battery swaps in mind
...The two companies' technologies could work together... but don't have to. Considering that Tesla is planning on selling the Model S, due in late 2011, with different battery options (a base model with 160-mile range pack; and then more expensive packs with 230-mile and 300-mile ranges), figuring out how to swap these different batteries in random locations seems like a logistics problem of tremendous proportions...
 
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Battery Swap vs. Rapid Recharge

Battery Swaps are an interim solution until Level 3 charging is widely available and therefore allows the demand for battery chemistries like lithium titanate to come down in price that can take advantage of the rapid recharging level 3 provides.

Putting aside the fact that you are stuck with some sort of contractual obligation to swap only a designated spots eliminating competition for the service, as far as I have read yet, nobody has talked about the very likely possibility of showing up at a battery swap station and it not having a fully charged battery for you to use. Everybody hitting the same station for the Labor Day weekend for example.

Making a car with a swappable battery does have one extreme advantage even if it were to have rapid recharge capability. If something goes wrong with it, it makes a swap at the maintenance shop a whole lot easier.
 
Can't wait to drop my perfect 300 mile babied battery pack for somebody else's sick puppy with a bunch of marginal cells. :mad: QC will be key for success. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the practicality of the swap system at this point. I hope they develop better batteries by delivery time. 160 miles won't do it for me I need 230 minimum and would like 300-500 miles. Hey, maybe we should carry a little portable gasoline powered generator under the capacious bonnet to guarantee strand proofing. (Sorry, that was cynical, I'm joking. That would make a Tesla a Volt with a much cooler body:wink:). Buy a Tesla, abandon gasoline or what's the point? It's all or nothing. Can't 1/2 believe in a dream. I don't ever want another stinking ICE in my car. Only Tesla has the balls and commitment to make it work and show the world the new way. Now, how about an IPO and a factory groundbreaking? Any news? Anyone? News is scant and I can't get a return email from my rep since I dropped my deposit. A current newsletter on the website would be nice. Anything to let us know that us Model S customers are really going to see our cars anywhere near 2012. I would settle for a little hype, a fresh tech spec, a couple pics with the bonnet and hatch open. Some of us techie fanatics can be very impatient. Give us some love. :smile:please
 
I was at the Los Angeles store last weekend and the Model S just happened to be there for a photo shoot. I'm a future owner and just seeing it in the wild gave me hope that yes, we will start seeing cars in 2012. It's much BIGGER than I thought. Think BMW 7 series or Mercedes "S" class.
 
Yeah, I was hoping more for C-class size (not E/S-class), but I gather "seating for 7" was a design requirement, and larger luxury sedans do tend to command more of a premium price.
 
We seem to have drifted off topic from swappable batteries to seating but what the heck. Seating for 7 isn't of interest in our family. It's just me and the Mrs. with a boy about to graduate college. However, I like the idea that I can have a sedan with storage space comparable to that of an SUV. I Leased a Blazer once and it was handy but so 80s. Now I've got a 2003 Infiniti G35 6MT. It gets 30mpg highway, but I live in Center City Philadelphia where my average speed is 11mph and there's a traffic light or stop sign almost every block so the mileage where I drive most is around 12-14mpg. Plus the pinched nerve in my neck and the arthritis in my left knee coupled with living in a place where I have to drive with one hand always moving the stick among the 3 lowest gears are starting to sour me on shifting. Oh well, it was fun when I got to take it out in the sticks, but it's time for more of an "old man" car but it's gotta be something special. No Buick Park Avenue like my old man drives. Remember, 60 is the new 40, or is it the new 37?. Anyway, any reasonable hybrid would give me a nice bump on my city mileage but there isn't one I would have ('cept maybe a Lexus, but that's not a big enough leap). A nice, big, fast Model S will give me lots of cool stuff to make up for the "seat of you pants feel" I'll be giving up. The S is actually a little faster than the G, but the car doesn't need me to accomplish that. I'm ready for some luxury and some space and solar panels on my house so at least my car has a zero carbon footprint (excluding manufacturing). I'm looking forward to leaning back, stretching out, driving a big 'ole Benz sized sedan that's one of the coolest, smartest cars in the world, not an obnoxious example of conspicuous consumption. I may be closing in on 60 years old but I'm not packing it in just yet, just starting a new phase of life. I've got a lot of living to do and the Model S fits right in with my new theme. I'm not saying the S is specifically an "old man" car. I wish I could have gotten a Model S instead of the 89 Pontiac SSI that I bought when I started my family. That was a sweet family sedan, though I tended to grab my 80 Honda Prelude for non family driving. The Tesla Model S should have very wide demographic appeal.

There you have my completely superficial, unvarnished, unapologetically judgmental, materialistic, status symbol skewed view of the car. I'm generally not this critical. I am motivated by my belief and faith that the Tesla is important, profound and hopefully a real game changer in the stagnant, myopic automobile industry. That's really why I'm buying it. It could be as revolutionary as the Model T was in it's day, without all the nasty tailpipe emissions Henry taught us how to mass produce at a pace that would enable us to nearly destroy our planet's atmosphere in about a century. Well, it's a new century and thanks to Tesla, Americans can still love their cars, without ruining the planet.

Change of plan. The nerve pain won so Sunday I went to my Infiniti dealer looking to trade in my stick G35 for an automatic version. I wound up with a 2003 Mercedes CLK 500 with a 5.0 litre V8, the very kind of car at which I was sniping. Looks like I'll be a hypocrite for the next 2 years and be burning a little more gas before I stop altogether when I get my Model S. The price was right, the car was immaculate, it only had 38K miles on it and I just couldn't resist. I had never even driven a MB before my test drive Sunday. This is probably going to be my last chance ever to drive a Mercedes in my life, unless they come out with a BEV someday. I like to keep my cars for at least 10 years if I can but sadly I had to part with my G prematurely. I hope to keep the Model S for a decade. I'll be 70ish then and who knows what choices in electric cars will be available then. Hopefully ONLY electric cars by then.
 
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