Removable / swappable pack options?

[Iz]

Hi Lush1, good luck with the MB. At least it is not new. I've commited NOT to purchase a new vehicle unless it is an EV. Actually, all of my vehicles have been "pre owned". Model S will be my first new.

See you at the Northeast Model S rally :biggrin:

 

[Lush1]

Hi Lush1, good luck with the MB. At least it is not new. I've commited NOT to purchase a new vehicle unless it is an EV. Actually, all of my vehicles have been "pre owned". Model S will be my first new.

See you at the Northeast Model S rally :biggrin:

I'll be at the rally, count on it.

I had made the same resolution about not buying a new car unless it was electric. I wouldn't have traded in my 6 speed manual Infiniti but health reasons forced me to get an automatic. I would have been happy to hang on to my G35 for another 2 years but sadly, I couldn't hang in there. When it became apparent that I needed an automatic, I planned to just trade the stick for an automatic G35 until, on a whim, I took a test drive in the used MB. Not the kind of car I ever expected to own in my life but I figured this was a perfect opportunity to try one out. I had never even driven one before. The deal was good, mileage was low and I got a 2 year extended warranty so I'm set until I get my Model S. This will be my last ICE car, but what a way to go out. It's got a zippy 5.0 liter V8 in it so it's real bad karma car. I hope buying the S helps me pay off some of the karmic debt I'm accumulating while driving the Benz.

 

[ChrisC]

Continuing the tangent ... I allowed myself to start thinking about a new car two years ago, and quickly came to the decision that the next car will be an EV. I've been watching the EV business closely since then and am now firm in that decision. I may wait until the Model S to pull the trigger, but it will definitely be an EV. It even says so on the back of my car, a gas-guzzling luxury sport sedan, with a sticker similar to this one:

http://rlv.zcache.com/my_next_car_will_be_electric_bumper_sticker-p128272922635066744tmn6_210.jpg

 

[TEG]

Back on topic:
http://blog.betterplace.com/2010/12...stations-accommodate-different-battery-types/

 

[heems]

Looks like the 1-minute battery swap option has been removed from the Model S features page on TM website... I think it used to be there.

 

[theBike45]

I'm not familiar with the design of the Model S batttery pack, but if it were me, I would provide for three sections, one occupied
for 160, two for 230 and three for the 300 mile range option. I think battery technology and lowered costs has made both the Chevy Volt
and Better Place totally obsolete. They both only made sense (if at all) in a world of very heavy, very expensive, and very slow charging batteries.
The only thing motivating them was hysterical fear of carbon emissions and ignorance of the effect that EVs would have. It's clear that, for the most
part, 300 mile (and probably 230 mile) battery packs are only needed when travelling. Many people seldom travel. Therefore, with the expandible
battery design I previously suggested, a good strategy for as long as battery costs are substantial, would seem to be to endow Tesla
dealerships with the ability to swap in the one (or two) pack segments needed to provide a 300 mile pack and rent them.

 

[dsm363]

I don't get it. That would shift the weight depending on the location of your section. The entire battery pack can be swapped out so that takes care of that problem. Tesla has talked about the possibily of renting longer range packs but nothing definite that I know of.

Please format your posts in the editor here. These run-on paragraphs aren't great to read. Thanks.

 

[Eberhard]

160miles and 230 mile option will be different in number of cells, the 300mile will have same number of cells like 230miles option but using different capacity like 3100mA instead of 2200mA

 

[Norbert]

Looks like the 1-minute battery swap option has been removed from the Model S features page on TM website... I think it used to be there.

On the "Innovations" page, it still says:

The location of the battery pack below the floor also enables rapid interchangeability.

Perhaps Tesla just doesn't make it a major point anymore as it might not have plans for building swapping stations. In any case, it will be useful to allow upgrading the battery pack without larger work costs.

 

[JimmWilks]

Surely changing the number of cells will alter the weight of the car, therefore altering it's performance? Does this mean the lowest range car will be the performer, or that Tesla will "add weight" equivalent so that performance is equal across the range?

 

[jkirkebo]

Surely changing the number of cells will alter the weight of the car, therefore altering it's performance? Does this mean the lowest range car will be the performer, or that Tesla will "add weight" equivalent so that performance is equal across the range?

Or the 160 mile version might pump out less power from the motor due to the smaller battery not being able to supply as much power as the 230 mile version.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Surely changing the number of cells will alter the weight of the car, therefore altering it's performance? Does this mean the lowest range car will be the performer, or that Tesla will "add weight" equivalent so that performance is equal across the range?

jkirkebo is correct. The smallest capacity battery will provide the least amount of power (assuming the same discharge rate). That is why I suspect the cars with larger batteries will also offer more power (the motors will be sized to handle the additional power).

It'll be like buying a V6 vs a V8 except you gain extra range too.

 

[rabar10]

(the motors will be sized to handle the additional power)

Guessing the motors will be the same (unless there's some separate Sport variant). At low speeds, the acceleration/torque/current is limited by the motor or PEM. See the torque curve on Tesla's site *here*. As you gain speed with a flat torque curve, the power requirements go up until you hit the power sourcing capability of the battery pack. Then you stay at roughly constant power until the back-EMF and other high-speed motor inefficiencies start to affect the top end.

On their graph, the effect would be to shift the torque fall-off point to a higher speed, giving you a larger max kw/horsepower number and more 'oomph' through the car's top-end.

This trend of larger battery packs having better performance should still hold when taking into account the extra weight from more cells when going from the 160- to 230-mile packs. In fact, the 300-mile pack should see an even bigger improvement, if the PEM can handle the extra power and the higher-capacity cells offer similar discharge rates and weigh about the same...

</nerd> :smile:

 

[doug]

Tesla’s Model S Battery Is Swappable, Just in Case - Reuters

 

[TEG]

New details emerge on battery swap plans for Tesla Model S Autoblog Green

 

[Fr23shjive]

So this battery swapping is basically the same as renting a battery?

Sounds like an excellent idea. I wonder if you can swap a 160 mile battery for a 300 mile battery for long trips?

 

[AndrewBissell]

I think that is the idea

 

[Nik]

So this battery swapping is basically the same as renting a battery?

I think that is the idea

This is where the dealer network strategy comes in to play - it would really help if TM had a nationwide network of affiliates (bases from which Rangers could operate, don't need to be retail quality) for people to collect their batteries from. A battery loan system is fantastic, it makes the car more affordable by removing the need for a 300-mile battery, but it's no use if I have to drive even 100 miles to fetch my new battery, nor will I pay the cost (even at no margin) of sending out specialist staff and machinery to do they job for me.

 

[jkirkebo]

This is where the dealer network strategy comes in to play - it would really help if TM had a nationwide network of affiliates (bases from which Rangers could operate, don't need to be retail quality) for people to collect their batteries from. A battery loan system is fantastic, it makes the car more affordable by removing the need for a 300-mile battery, but it's no use if I have to drive even 100 miles to fetch my new battery, nor will I pay the cost (even at no margin) of sending out specialist staff and machinery to do they job for me.

Well, it really depends on if the 100 miles you have to drive to rent the battery is the same direction you'll travelling anyway ?

 

[AndrewBissell]

I agree with Nik. (subtle UK political joke intended, but as side-effect only. )

For me it's about 400 miles to the nearest Tesla Store so I don't yet see how this battery rental idea would benof any use to me - unless they offer them via a national chain of tyre and exhaust centres like Kwik Fit who after all will want some alternative to exhausts at some point. But then all the logistical points about Better Place come into play - how many batteries do you need, positioned where, etc.

Would it ever make sense to have a pre-order system in which a chain like that fits a battery shipped out by Tesla (and then removes and ships it back after your roadtrip)? On the face of it weight and size (=transport costs) might preclude that but it's worth a thought. Tyres and exhasusts aren't tiny or massless.