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Discussion in 'Tesla for Sale' started by konefunk, Sep 21, 2014.

  1. konefunk

    konefunk Member

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    #1 konefunk, Sep 21, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
    This listing has been removed by a site admin.
     
  2. dalamchops

    dalamchops Member

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    I would sell mine at cost too if i can keep $12,500 in tax credits
     
  3. konefunk

    konefunk Member

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    #3 konefunk, Sep 21, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
    Ha...well, we will see. Haven't received any tax credit yet since we just got the car, and trouble is GA is probably going to get rid of the tax credit soon...they almost did it last year, but ran out of time during the last legislative session. And who knows how long the Federal tax credit will last. So, any future purchase we make may cost a lot more in the absence of a credit. There's some risk in doing this.

    And in any case, some people may want a Model S now and don't want to wait. And there's no other car for sale that I know of anywhere in the US right now that's just driven off the showroom floor with less than 100 miles on it (particularly with all the most popular options and colors). And if ours doesn't sell, we'll be happy to keep it! :smile: No twisting arms here.
     
  4. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Ignoring all the fear mongering of tax credits going away, your actual cost is not $102k, but around $92k.

    I am sure someone with enough change lying around will bite.
     
  5. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Also, except in rare cases, changes to tax credits aren't retroactive. So if they're available now, you can claim them on your return next year. If they vote to rescind it, it's most likely only for all future purchases (or as of/after some specific date). So yeah, that's totally fear mongering. The federal tax credit is real, and you'll be able to claim that, but your buyer won't be able to. So is someone willing to pay a $12,500 premium for the privilege of not waiting a couple of months? I'd guess anyone reading this forum isn't in that demographic.

    Also, let's see -- you include the GA state sales tax (TAVT) in your total cost, but that's another tax your buyer will also have to pay, so their cost is actually about $7000 more than your asking price AND you're asking the buyer to pay you back for the sales tax you paid!?? Wow.

    I hear you say you're under no pressure or need to sell, but at least make a reasonable value proposition to a potential buyer, not one that's $20,000 more than buying a brand new car

    Lastly, let's compare: Your asking price to a buyer is essentially: $103,870+tax ($7000)= $110,870

    OR, they could order the exact same car BRAND NEW, delivered in December, get all the tax credits, and pay the GA sales tax for: $91,370

    That's a difference of $19,500.

    All I can say is, "good luck".
     
  6. bemental

    bemental Member

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    #6 bemental, Sep 21, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
    "New" 2014 Loaded Model S, Less Than 100 Miles, Sold At Cost

    HLR,

    Thanks for nailing this down more succinctly, and in a more controlled manner.

    My $0.02: OP's 'fair, and realistic' at cost calculation should exclude taxes, and the tax credit he'll receive. We can argue about the cost of the privilege to purchase now and avoid waiting in line, but in all honesty there are (surprisingly, at least to me) not a shortage of gently-used MS' floating around.

    My calculations come out to approximately $89,470 ($95,570 + $1,400 for Suntek - $7,500 federal tax credit). And even this is excluding the current $5,000 credit he should be able to claim from the state of GA.


    On a separate note, I don't include these tax incentives in my personal calculations, because they never work out for me. I spend too much time deployed overseas to generate a tax liability so I don't end up owing any income tax even before a credit or deduction is applied.

    Now if the IRS started cutting checks for $7,500, that'd be a different story.

    ---

    I'll apologize for giving you a hard time OP, but from my perspective, it seems you've got to assume a few sunk costs if you plan on offloading this vehicle to someone else.

    I'm sorry that's the case you find yourself in, please let us know if we can help you out at all.
     
  7. cpa

    cpa Member

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    The $7,500 federal tax credit is only available to the original purchaser. This credit has a sunset provision that kicks in after 200,000 domestic autos are sold by a particular manufacturer, so likely this credit on Teslas S and X will probably sunset in about three years give or take, if they meet Elon Musk's projections once the Model X starts coming off the line.

    Any purchaser will generally have to pay sales tax again to their state of residence when they re-register their car (at least that is the way it is in California.)
     
  8. Vitaman

    Vitaman Member

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    In Georgia, the Sales Tax is a thing of the past, replaced by an ad valorem tax. But that does not change the fact that each time the car is sold, 6.75% of the fair value (determined by the State) has to be paid by the buyer.
    That fact plus the lack of choice of paint color, and wheel size and even brand of tint make the market for the car smaller.
    However if it's equipped the way someone wants, the wait period for this one is quite tolerable.
     
  9. bemental

    bemental Member

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    Similar situation in Maine, a tax is collected on all vehicles yearly at time of registration if they were manufactured within the last 6 years.
     
  10. dalamchops

    dalamchops Member

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    this guy also put up his phone number on a public forum... lol
     
  11. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

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    Why would anyone want to pay you for the tax and tags. They will again have to turn around and pay them again. You need to rethink this one the new buyer will not be able to get the tax credit either
     
  12. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    OP is hoping some sucker will bite, but that won't happen through this forum.
     
  13. bemental

    bemental Member

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    Phone number on public forums typically turn into: "leave your best Wookie call on my voicemail" contests.
     
  14. konefunk

    konefunk Member

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    #14 konefunk, Sep 22, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
    Come on guys. You really think its not common knowledge that there's are tax credits involved in a Tesla purchase? Some you act like you've fallen on to some great secret. Right now my cost is exactly what is posted...plus time and other small costs. I have received NO tax credits to date...the car isn't even registered yet (except for the Tesla temp tag from CA). And none of you have any idea how much of that tax credit we will receive. I'm a retired military pilot, and much of my other income is tax free. Our real risk, and what some of you are not getting, is that when we replace this car with a Model X, some of the tax credits very well may not be available IN THE FUTURE. That means another car may cost more... The wait list for the Model X is long, and we won't buy the first year model. And there is an EV tax credit cap of 200K cumulative sales for Tesla...probably several years down the road, but a cap none-the-less, so even the Federal tax credit will go away. And there's a good chance the GA tax credit will go away next year (look it up). And Georgia right now has a 150 vehicle cap on Tesla sales too, so there's a chance that people in GA may not even be able to buy a Tesla here as demand increases. This is not "fear mongering." And anyone here want to guarantee all of us that the government CAN NOT and WILL NOT change EV tax credit law in the future? We are all adults here...so not sure what all the hate is about. Anyhow, there have been plenty of cases where used cars have gone for more used than new...Forbes even wrote about it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/02/07/tesla-model-s-worth-more-used-than-new/ In any case, anyone who is able to buy a $100,000 is smart enough to haggle on the price and is fully aware of the tax credit situation I'll benefit from. I frankly wouldn't buy this way, but I'm not in a hurry to buy. But maybe someone who really wants a car for their wife's birthday, or anniversary, or some other important date and needs a car fast and is more than happy to do so. There are plenty of rich people out whose time is worth more than money. As I said...I'm not twisting anyone's arms. And if the car doesn't sell, we'll be happy to keep it.
     
  15. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    1. YOU are the only one who can claim the tax credit, if your income/tax situation allows. Nobody else. If you don't/can't claim it, that only matters to you. Nobody else cares. You decided to buy the car based on your personal tax situation. And now you're trying to sell the car, essentially $20k MORE than a NEW car would cost an average buyer who would qualify for the tax credits. The FORBES article is pretty old, and the wait times much shorter than they were last winter.

    2. Nobody cares what your plans are for the Model X -- again, that's your own decision to make. Why does that affect the buyer? If you think there's risk for you, great, there's risk FOR YOU. Why are you asking the buyer to help mitigate that $20k of risk? Just to get a USED car a month or two early? And so what if the tax credits aren't available TO YOU for the MX? You're basically trying to find some sucker out there to remove $20k of YOUR risk by wanting to upgrade to the MX.

    3. The Federal tax credit is YEARS away from going away, so why do you keep bringing that up? That only applies to you, since you're planning on waiting so long for the MX. Again, why does a buyer TODAY care that the Fed credit is limited? You keep bringing up these red herring points, but all they are are FUD. They don't enter into the equation of selling your USED car today, where someone can get the same car for $20k less brand new, THIS YEAR.

    4. The GA tax credit "might" go away? Well, that's still speculative, and only affects any potential buyers in GA NEXT YEAR. Again, if someone is concerned that the credit "might" go away NEXT YEAR, they can buy a NEW car identical to yours for $20k less THIS YEAR. Again, how does that fact affect a buyer TODAY of either your car or a new car delivered this year? It doesn't.

    You're right, there are rich people with more money than time.. but I doubt you're going to find them anytime soon. Even rich people aren't going to piss away $20k on a $100k car. So your choices are to let the car sit, untouched/unregisterd to (hopefully) retain it's "new" status, or just start driving and using it, which then it's really a USED car. Either way, I'm sure you're going to take the $20k hit, and not some rich sucker.
     
  16. konefunk

    konefunk Member

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    #16 konefunk, Sep 22, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
    Well, appreciate your service. I too spent more time deployed overseas in various S holes over 21 years than I care to remember. As far as my sale price, I'm not sure why so many people feel the need to waste their own time weighing on an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with them (unless of course its potential buyers complaining about the price). If I want to ask $150,000 for my car, that's my choice...its my car. If the ONLY money I make on this sale comes from the tax credits, so what? Is that a crime? I've been ENTIRELY honest about what my costs are on this car. Furthermore, I also never said "Price firm" either. IRT "it seems you've got to assume a few sunk costs if you plan on offloading this vehicle to someone else", why do I need to assume some sunk costs? As I said, at some point, its not worth it to me...I'm not going to sell without making some money on the transaction. Again, when did making money selling a car become a crime, and why do you care if you aren't the buyer? NO ONE is getting ripped off here. That's the truth.
     
  17. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    If you post a car for sale on a forum, at a price that is tens of thousand of dollars higher than what someone can buy the exact same car for after credits/rebates, it should surprise no one that some people will post their reasons as to why they think the asking price is way out of line, whether they are prospective buyers are not. That is the nature of online forums.

    If you don't want any feedback I suggest craigslist or eBay.

    Good luck with your sale.
     
  18. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    It doesn't bother me, I just think you're delusional if you think you can sell the car for exactly (or close to) what you paid, including sales tax and the little add-ons, as a "new car". It's one thing if you just said "Hey, I just bought this car new, and would like to recover as much as possible, so here's my asking price, let's talk".. but you didn't -- you keep throwing out all these red herrings and justifications of YOUR decision making processes, that's somehow supposed to affect the buyer? Like any buyer is going to say "Oh, ok, so yeah, I see what you want to do with the MX and the disappearing tax credits, sure, I'll pay $20k over the price of a new car for your used car". It just doesn't work that way.
     
  19. konefunk

    konefunk Member

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    Delusional? Hank, I never said "Price firm" either, did I? Starting off with "Asking Price $XXX,XXX, or "Best Offer" is not a smart way to start a negotiation, as anyone with a little common sense knows. And, I think MOST of the people here are smart enough to know that unless the add says "Price Firm", there's probably some wiggle room on the price. But you had to get all bent out of shape over a presumed $12,500 profit off the tax credit, when you have no idea what I'd eventually sell the car for. That's a little crazy, don't you think? I have no delusions...I know there's not many buyers who are willing to pay a premium to avoid the wait, but there ARE some. And if it doesn't sell for something more than I paid, selling the car is not worth it to me. You started with the flames, and when I honestly try to explain, you bitch about that too. Sorry you are incapable of understanding my, MY, reasons for pricing the car the way I have. People don't have to buy it...and they won't unless its worth it to them...so NO ONE is getting ripped off. If someone wants to spend $20k, or $30, or $50k over the price of a new car so they can get a "used" one right now, that's none of your stinking business. So stop your whining...you sound like some Marxist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not true...they can only do that after waiting for 3 months, which has been my point all along. But thank you for the rational and thoughtful points.
     
  20. Darth Fedor

    Darth Fedor Member

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    I just got the popcorn ready... I'm enjoying where this is going ;-)

    Just to play the devil's advocate and to give the seller the benefit of doubt, he DIDN'T say his price was firm. With that said....

    I officially offer you $50K Canadian dollars. Now you seem like a reasonable man, by what I'm reading from your multiple post. I'm sure you realize the cost (and my precious time) involving me transferring the car to Canada. I hope you consider my offer. ;-)
     

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