Renewable Energy Credit Agreement - Lifetime clause

[dilvala]

How are people okay with allowing Tesla claim the credits (REC) generated by the system for the lifetime of the install? In some states these credits are worth a lot right now with an understanding that in the future that the value will decrease. For people in IL, the state provides a upfront credit for 15 years worth of REC but after that a homeowner should be able to trade it in open market. Anyone else worry about REC?

 

[wjgjr]

I know you mentioned this in another thread. Did you follow up with Tesla to see if there was an option in the contract to explicitly limit your sale to 15 years? I still think that Tesla essentially has two boilerplate sections for their contracts - one that says "Tesla owns the RECs" and one that says "customer owns the RECs." I suspect they haven't really contemplated the issues in IL.

And it seems like IL is a fairly unique market in that you sell a 15-year block of credits, where other states with REC-style systems you sell them as you go. Additionally, it does not appear that there is much or any marketplace as a consumer to sell the credits - you pretty much need to get the money from your installer or the broker your installer uses. I feel like the way the system is setup in IL tends to lock you in to what the installer wants to offer, regardless of what installer you choose, so my question is whether what Tesla is offering for the ABP is similar to other installers. If it is a lot lower, definitely worth complaining to Tesla. If it is similar, complaints might be better directed at the state agency.

The overall answer to your question is that on this forum, most people are probably not okay with it and that is why they decline that option. But they have access to a marketplace to sell the credits themselves, which it seems IL does not, at least at this time. And for those who do accept it, they understand the nature of the transaction.

All that said, what will the market for those RECs be in 15 years in IL? In MD, I know they are set to decline, and I would not be shocked in general if the entire concept of RECs looks totally different in 15 years - though it will probably depend a lot on how quickly the ongoing transition to renewables actually happens. RECs only make sense to encourage the transition to renewable energy, as I see it.

 

[SolPowered]

Has anyone handled this in Connecticut? From what I'm trying to piece together, it looks like I should be much better off by maintaining control of the RECs myself, and selling them on the Massachusetts market through something like SRECTrade (or only through them). From what it looks like, I'd earn more in the first year of doing that than accepting Tesla's one time payment that has them control the RECs for the first fifteen years.

 

[wjgjr]

Has anyone handled this in Connecticut? From what I'm trying to piece together, it looks like I should be much better off by maintaining control of the RECs myself, and selling them on the Massachusetts market through something like SRECTrade (or only through them). From what it looks like, I'd earn more in the first year of doing that than accepting Tesla's one time payment that has them control the RECs for the first fifteen years.

Maybe your contract could help @dilvala at least with one point - you mention 15 years. Is that in your contract that Tesla would own the RECs for 15 years and then you would claim them after?

I don't know enough about the rules in New England, but a quick glance at SRECTrade shows CT isn't a market they serve. I know MA is, but the good prices are for a program that appears to be closed. It is also not clear to me whether they allow production from out of state to be sold there. For example, even though I am closer to DC than any other major city, I cannot sell my SRECs in DC, which is too bad, since they are worth many times what MD is.

 

[SolPowered]

It was while on the phone with the project advisor that I'd heard the number of 15 years. The only documentation I had so far (the project's still at the permitting stage) was one registering Tesla as my aggregator with the Massachusettes Renewable Portfolio Standard. That's what got me looking at, well, if they can do that, I reckon I could through SRECTrade as well. Although yes, I'm seeing now where the Mass SREC-II program is closed, and now it's something else. And that I might be able to sell in their Class I REC group, but that isn't nearly as profitable.

 

[dilvala]

Maybe your contract could help @dilvala at least with one point - you mention 15 years. Is that in your contract that Tesla would own the RECs for 15 years and then you would claim them after?

I don't know enough about the rules in New England, but a quick glance at SRECTrade shows CT isn't a market they serve. I know MA is, but the good prices are for a program that appears to be closed. It is also not clear to me whether they allow production from out of state to be sold there. For example, even though I am closer to DC than any other major city, I cannot sell my SRECs in DC, which is too bad, since they are worth many times what MD is.

I did contact Tesla and they are certain that it's either all or nothing. They would be happy to remove the IL ABP credit and let me sell those on my own using a approved vendor but I see that it's hard to find someone that is not the installer to take on these type of transactions. SECTrade asks for the installer information and once I selected Tesla it says something like "Tesla is not part of their system yet and have Tesla email them to join".

I sent another email to check and see if the terms can be updated to 15 years vs lifetime for IL customers. As far as the credit given by Tesla it's in-line with what a local installer would provide. But going with local installer would increase the price because they aren't able to match Tesla's new solar pricing.

 

[wjgjr]

I did contact Tesla and they are certain that it's either all or nothing. They would be happy to remove the IL ABP credit and let me sell those on my own using a approved vendor but I see that it's hard to find someone that is not the installer to take on these type of transactions. SECTrade asks for the installer information and once I selected Tesla it says something like "Tesla is not part of their system yet and have Tesla email them to join".

I sent another email to check and see if the terms can be updated to 15 years vs lifetime for IL customers. As far as the credit given by Tesla it's in-line with what a local installer would provide. But going with local installer would increase the price because they aren't able to match Tesla's new solar pricing.

It does suck that Tesla is not being cooperative about the 15-year deal (as I assume other vendors would be.) If they won't change, I guess it then becomes a question of what value you think those RECs will have after 15 years.

Since their credit is in line with others and there don't appear to be independent/alternative options for registering your system for a better deal, that sounds like more of an issue to address with the state agency, for whatever good that might do. I kind of have a feeling though that this is more the way states are going in general - trying to make it theoretically easier for consumers (since your installer handles everything,) even if that might mean a lower payout for customers as a result. The long-term plan also reduces volatility that REC markets can have since they are thinly traded.

 

[Southpasfan]

Where in the contract does it mention buying out this credit? I have to pull mine and look at it, but I didn't see anything about it on there.

In my contract (California) the only credit listed is the $100 bucks down payment.

Is that where it is?

 

[wjgjr]

Where in the contract does it mention buying out this credit? I have to pull mine and look at it, but I didn't see anything about it on there.

In my contract (California) the only credit listed is the $100 bucks down payment.

Is that where it is?

Does California currently have an SREC program, or similar? If not, that may be why it is not mentioned in your contract.

 

[jjrandorin]

Does California currently have an SREC program, or similar? If not, that may be why it is not mentioned in your contract.

No, we dont, I am almost positive.. at least not that I could find when I started looking recently, when conversation here started turning to REC credits.

 

[djcasava]

I had Tesla take this out of my contract. In NJ, selling RECs on my own would be greater than the credit Tesla is offering. Not worth it in my opinion. But each state is different. Highly suggest reviewing the contract before accepting payment details.

 

[dilvala]

I had Tesla take this out of my contract. In NJ, selling RECs on my own would be greater than the credit Tesla is offering. Not worth it in my opinion. But each state is different. Highly suggest reviewing the contract before accepting payment details.

What do you use to sell your REC?