Replace wing mirrors (driver and passenger) with cameras

[Donz_S]

With Tesla is trying to achieve the least restrictive designs for the various models, I began wondering if there were a way to get rid of wing mirrors for good.

Yes, nearly every state requires a driver's side, wing mirror, capable of reflecting road information for no less than 200 feet behind the vehicle. But, I did not read that these mirrors need to be located on the outside of the vehicle in order to fulfill this requirement. If that can be true, then why not replace the wing mirrors with cameras (much lower profile, wider viewing angle, no blind spots) and add the high resolution screen just inside the vehicle along the same position as the existing mirror projects its image into the vehicle. And to maintain state requirements, somewhere above or below that screen, a much smaller interior wing mirror could be added.

Thoughts?

 

[David.85D]

I believe Tesla tried to get this approved but was unsuccessful. In time, I am sure it will happen.

Tesla Wants to Replace Side-View Mirrors With Cameras

 

[Donz_S]

Hey, I'm only a "little" behind the mirror conversion curve... That article, although from 2014, is still just as true today. Patience I say. Patience.

 

[The Duke]

Doctors need patience. We need to write our fossilized politicians to update the laws.

 

[BerTX]

It isn't the politicians, but the bureaucracy. But even if they are approved on a national level, there are still state laws to be changed.

@Donz_S, your idea of the inside, side mirror is interesting -- not sure how the laws read, whether they specifically state the mirror has to be external. Have you held a mirror up to this area to see if it would work?

Tesla still had the side mirrors on "stalks" sticking out from the standard mirror position. My solution would be for a teeny tiny mirror on this stalk that would meet the letter of the law. but only incur a tiny aero penalty.

 

[Donz_S]

Have you held a mirror up to this area to see if it would work?

I haven’t done that, but during my last cross-country drive, I kept staring at that mirror (with the blinding headlights behind me) and thinking, if only it were inside, it would just fit within that cavity between the window and the dashboard.

 

[Akikiki]

I believe Tesla tried to get this approved but was unsuccessful. In time, I am sure it will happen.

Tesla Wants to Replace Side-View Mirrors With Cameras

David, yes you are correct. Nearly all the manufacturers have been ready to do this. Tesla and several formed an alliance and formally petitioned the Feds to allow them to stop using outside rear view mirrors and only camera. As a matter of fact go back and look (you can't) the picture that Tesla posted on the Model X page back when they first showed us pictures. It had no mirrors. Only a short stub with a camera facing the rear.

But some of the reason the Feds have not approved is the learning curve that they fear will impact drivers. The Feds are concerned that people will not be able to transition from looking out the sides to looking inside to see the rear view. And even if starting "today" they approve, what about all the legacy cars that have the old method. They have written there's no each standard for making sure people that buy new cars with it and then drive old cars without will not have crashes. (Crazy huh? ).It's a bit more complex than what I said, but I've read a bunch on NHTSA about it.

I considering doing it on my S anyway. I intend to try Audiovox wired or wireless camera mounted under the existing mirrors and two small screens inside the car's doors near the small glass. I am planning on at least trying it.

 

[George II]

I’m still wondering when the NTSB allowed turn signals a optional

 

[Gwgan]

ISO/DIS 16505
First released in 2015 and now under scheduled review. Anybody making plans will probably at least wait until these updated plans are released.

 

[The Duke]

Or they could just do it and see what happens - put a camera out there with a 2" x 1" mirror over a camera since there is no mirror size requirement in most states. Cadillac does this with their rear view "mirror", the "mirror" part is strictly compliance.
California Vehicle Code, Section 26709.

(a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

 

[Donz_S]

Or they could just do it and see what happens - put a camera out there with a 2" x 1" mirror over a camera since there is no mirror size requirement in most states. Cadillac does this with their rear view "mirror", the "mirror" part is strictly compliance.
California Vehicle Code, Section 26709.

(a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

Nice that it only says "a" mirror and not plural or more specifically the wing mirrors. I saw a report on Audi e-Tron SUV testing in Abu Dhabi. It has cameras and looked pretty cool. Audi e-tron first drive review: a solid SUV that happens to be electric

 

[scottm]

Or they could just do it and see what happens - put a camera out there with a 2" x 1" mirror over a camera since there is no mirror size requirement in most states. Cadillac does this with their rear view "mirror", the "mirror" part is strictly compliance.
California Vehicle Code, Section 26709.

(a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

I've seen the Caddy interior mirror with a screen that comes up as a backup camera function, but not exterior mirrors with cameras behind them... is that what you're saying?

So long as there's a bulky external mirror it creates drag... I'd like to see them gone and am actively pursuing the idea of detacting them and replacing with cameras. I think two dedicated 5" screens on either side of the steering wheel near top of dash would do just fine.

Pulling the mirror stalks off the S leaves a gap of missing chrome window trim there, so if I had a source of that same trim style filling that gap... it would look pretty natural not having the exterior mirrors.

Two little bumps for cameras stuck to the triangle glass in that area would be fine. Would want these pointing back and down a bit and not super wide angle, maybe 110 degrees. And reversed images... of course.

 

[scottm]

There was a picture of an S on this forum long time ago, with mirror pods taken off, stalks still in place, and bullet cams attached to those.. but that looked a little odd. Like tiny mirrors that didn't match the car.

I'll try to find that...

thought he was crazy at the time, but Im seeing the light now, from a screen instead of a mirror

 

[Donz_S]

I've seen the Caddy interior mirror with a screen that comes up as a backup camera function, but not exterior mirrors with cameras behind them... is that what you're saying?

So long as there's a bulky external mirror it creates drag... I'd like to see them gone and am actively pursuing the idea of detacting them and replacing with cameras. I think two dedicated 5" screens on either side of the steering wheel near top of dash would do just fine.

Pulling the mirror stalks off the S leaves a gap of missing chrome window trim there, so if I had a source of that same trim style filling that gap... it would look pretty natural not having the exterior mirrors.

Two little bumps for cameras stuck to the triangle glass in that area would be fine. Would want these pointing back and down a bit and not super wide angle, maybe 110 degrees. And reversed images... of course.

That'd be cool to see if you can pull it off!

 

[The Duke]

Two little bumps for cameras stuck to the triangle glass in that area would be fine. Would want these pointing back and down a bit and not super wide angle, maybe 110 degrees. And reversed images... of course.

I would love to tie into the fender camera feeds.

 

[Gwgan]

Standard is final. An amendment is pending.
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:16505:ed-2:v1:en
US FMVSS 111 could replace “mirror” with “device” and use these tests but each US state would also have to update their statutes.