Replaced tires at 15k, checked alignment. Wow, it was off!

[Huskyfan]

Had top glass on my 2020 M3P replaced. Tesla noted the tires needed to be replaced, which i was skeptical. Got home and checked, yes the tires were very worn, mostly on the the inner tread area. Checked my alignment using toe alignment plates and a camber level. Obviously not as accurate as a shop, but good enough to check.

Car has never been in an accident. No significant potholes, etc. Been lowered via UPP coil overs, but only about 1/2” lower than a stock 2020 Performance model. UPP sway bars.

Camber in degrees
RF -1.4
LF -1.6
RR. -1.2
LR. -1.0

Front wheel was toed out 12mm!!!!! TERRIBLE. Now at 0mm toe.
Rear wheel was toed out 2mm. Not too bad. Same as front, 0 mm toe

I’ve fixed the toe alignment. It does drive much differently. Not that it ever felt unsafe, that’s just how the car drove.


the camber is slightly out of spec ( it’s supposed to be -1 rear, +/- 1 degree , and -.5 front, +/- .5 degrees). So I’m within spec on the rear, about 1/2 degree too much in the front. That actually makes sense cuz the rear is only 1/4” lower than stock in the rear, and the front is 1/2” lower.

I’m hoping the quick replacement of tires is more due to the toe being so out of whack, rather than the camber. don’t want to replace the UCAs to dial out the camber at this point.

I did put it in track mode twice when it was relatively new (and Covid boredom was very high) and smoked the tires a couple of times in an abandoned parking lot. Not Road Kill TV show burn up tires, but a good bit.

anyway. Moral of the story, I’d check your alignment, right at delivery. At least right after installing coil overs.

 

[jwharnish]

Front Toe out issue probably cause for premature wear on tires. When ever you lower a car, you will normally see more negative camber and more toe out. Camber up front a little aggressive but not crazy. Rotating tires at a good interval should help even out camber tire wear.
Nice performance/street setup.

 

[Huskyfan]

Did get 38% reimbursement credit from Michelin on the tires. Not bad since really I’d assume my alignment issues and the tire burning session explains some of the rapid wear. Let’s hope i get more miles out of these. I’ll be watching and measuring regularly.

 

[Huskyfan]

Front Toe out issue probably cause for premature wear on tires. When ever you lower a car, you will normally see more negative camber and more toe out. Camber up front a little aggressive but not crazy. Rotating tires at a good interval should help even out camber tire wear.
Nice performance/street setup.

Thanks for the compliment. I’m an incessant modder. other than appearance stuff, not much you can do to a Tesla other than modding the suspension. Have white brothers adjustable sway bar links too, but that’s another story. I’ve done a few appearance tweaks, but most of the money has gone into the suspension (Replaced the seats with real leather. That was about the same cost as coil-overs, but well worth the money!!).

 

[jwharnish]

Did get 38% reimbursement credit from Michelin on the tires. Not bad since really I’d assume my alignment issues and the tire burning session explains some of the rapid wear. Let’s hope i get more miles out of these. I’ll be watching and measuring regularly.

Good job on rebate from Michelin. Sounds like Discount Tire was involved. I got a credit when my OEM Michelins needed replaced at 22k. DT did that for me. Went with a BFG tire that is working well. 23k 5/32 left.
Tire burning sessions can only be done in track mode, so that something you can easily control.

 

[DocHolliday]

Did you get an alignment done after changing the suspension components? I thought it was always best practice to do that.

 

[Huskyfan]

Re alignment after coilovers. No. No one seems to want to touch the alignment. Not gonna pay Tesla 300 bucks to confirm that the camber was out of whack a bit. The only thing truly adjustable is the toe in/out which does not change drastically with lowering suspension only a bit.

I really did not expect toe alignment to be so messed up. Dropping 1/4” in rear and 1/2” in front should not change anything but make negative camber increase, which it did.

Toe in/out was significantly out of whack. The lowered suspension would not cause that. That was due to poor quality control by Tesla. It drove fine.

Hence my comments about checking your alignment when your car is new.

 

[P3D-R]

Re alignment after coilovers. No. No one seems to want to touch the alignment. Not gonna pay Tesla 300 bucks to confirm that the camber was out of whack a bit. The only thing truly adjustable is the toe in/out which does not change drastically with lowering suspension only a bit.

I really did not expect toe alignment to be so messed up. Dropping 1/4” in rear and 1/2” in front should not change anything but make negative camber increase, which it did.

Toe in/out was significantly out of whack. The lowered suspension would not cause that. That was due to poor quality control by Tesla. It drove fine.

Hence my comments about checking your alignment when your car is new.

It does not take much to affect toe with height changes. When you lower the vehicle the front toes out but the rear toes in.

In addition to that the factory toes out the front wheels so when lowered it just gets worse causing even more inside tire wear. Hope that's helpful.

Where is your rear toe set?

 

[gearchruncher]

Re alignment after coilovers. No. No one seems to want to touch the alignment. Not gonna pay Tesla 300 bucks to confirm that the camber was out of whack a bit. The only thing truly adjustable is the toe in/out which does not change drastically with lowering suspension only a bit.

I really did not expect toe alignment to be so messed up. Dropping 1/4” in rear and 1/2” in front should not change anything but make negative camber increase, which it did.

This is 100% because you lowered it. You cannot have a change in camber without a large change in toe. You get about 10mm of toe change for every 0.6 degrees of camber change. It's simple geometry, and why all the solutions that allow you to change camber require you to adjust toe also.

Hankook Tires in Lynnwood will happily align for about $100.

Come join us at Evergreen AutoX sometime!

 

[Huskyfan]

Thanks for the invite! And the info.

 

[Huskyfan]

This is 100% because you lowered it. You cannot have a change in camber without a large change in toe. You get about 10mm of toe change for every 0.6 degrees of camber change. It's simple geometry, and why all the solutions that allow you to change camber require you to adjust toe also.

Hankook Tires in Lynnwood will happily align for about $100.

Come join us at Evergreen AutoX sometime!

What u recommend for street driving toe?

 

[gearchruncher]

Alignment matters what your goals are, but near zero with a slight toe in on both axles is a good street compromise.

 

[jackmott]

Re alignment after coilovers. No. No one seems to want to touch the alignment. Not gonna pay Tesla 300 bucks to confirm that the camber was out of whack a bit. The only thing truly adjustable is the toe in/out which does not change drastically with lowering suspension only a bit.

I really did not expect toe alignment to be so messed up. Dropping 1/4” in rear and 1/2” in front should not change anything but make negative camber increase, which it did.

Toe in/out was significantly out of whack. The lowered suspension would not cause that. That was due to poor quality control by Tesla. It drove fine.

Hence my comments about checking your alignment when your car is new.

Find a shop that works on hot rods etc. They will tend to be willing. They are used to doing stuff not by the book.

 

[peakay]

This is 100% because you lowered it. You cannot have a change in camber without a large change in toe. You get about 10mm of toe change for every 0.6 degrees of camber change. It's simple geometry, and why all the solutions that allow you to change camber require you to adjust toe also.

So when you lower a Tesla, for the rear toe settings, are you generally looking to increase toe out or toe in? I have. Model S and started running in low mode and am looking to lower a bit further. I have N2itive camber links on order, but for the toe, when I look under the car the eccentrics are adjusted for near maximum toe in, so I'm hoping I will have enough adjustment in the stock eccentrics to bring it at or close to spec.

 

[gearchruncher]

So when you lower a Tesla, for the rear toe settings, are you generally looking to increase toe out or toe in? I have. Model S and started running in low mode and am looking to lower a bit further. I have N2itive camber links on order, but for the toe, when I look under the car the eccentrics are adjusted for near maximum toe in, so I'm hoping I will have enough adjustment in the stock eccentrics to bring it at or close to spec.

The Model S/X suspension is totally different. You should really ask this over there.
But I do happen to have an X, and I run camber arms on it. I have a thread here:

Rear Camber arms option - Hardrace

Posting a review of the Hardrace Q0601 rear camber arms for the S/X cars. These things are well made, and inexpensive (if you can find them). Aluminum main structure, with a curve very much like OEM. Appears to be CNC'd aluminum, shot peened, and then anodized. Reasonable adjustment method, and...

teslamotorsclub.com

In my experience, running a bit lower with a bit of camber will use up all of your toe out adjustment.
You generally want to run just a very small amount of toe-in on the rear axle of a RWD/AWD car.