Replacing 14-50 with HPWC, outlet on the wrong side of the stud

[Sophias_dad]

https://smile.amazon.com/Plated-Mal...5&sr=8-14&keywords=emt+90+degree+elbow+1+inch

I think the rule about no inspection port on buried conduit is silly if it's true.

I also think that trying to bury that conduit as it was is silly... its exposed at the top of the wall, in any case!

They sell snap-in metal covers that will probably work fine to re-close your HPWC top mount bracket, if you end up wanting to go top-mount.

 

[brkaus]

I think burying a box, even if no connections, is not allowed because someone might try to pull conduit through it not knowing it is even there. It's going to bind, etc.

In any case, bad practice.

 

[Glamisduner]

https://smile.amazon.com/Plated-Mal...5&sr=8-14&keywords=emt+90+degree+elbow+1+inch

I think the rule about no inspection port on buried conduit is silly if it's true.

I also think that trying to bury that conduit as it was is silly... its exposed at the top of the wall, in any case!

They sell snap-in metal covers that will probably work fine to re-close your HPWC top mount bracket, if you end up wanting to go top-mount.

It was done for 2 reasons, 1, to keep the stock charger from dangling away from the wall and 2, we improperly planned to do a rear entry to the HPWC. I didn't know anything about 90's or how complicated it would be to try a rear entry.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I think burying a box, even if no connections, is not allowed because someone might try to pull conduit through it not knowing it is even there. It's going to bind, etc.

In any case, bad practice.

Yes, I agree in the case of a box. I was really referring to the 90 degree at the end of a piece of conduit, and not one of those enormous 90 degree units in the OP's newest picture.

TBH, I'm not even sure rear-entry is allowed for 4AWG. Even 6AWG was a real pain to get in place...

 

[Dana1]

it's 4awg wire in conduit.

I'm thinking about paying someone to install it. I know the electrical side fine but no idea how to mount it and route wire into it and not have it gloating over a big hole. Uggg, but it will probably come out better if I do it myself. I do have a 10-30 I can charge off if I can't finish it in a day.



I'm thinking my best bet may be that cover with the knockout, and replace the entire piece of drywall. Sure i could mud over the hole but that just seems like more work since the wall has never been completely finished. Id likely have to mount using only drywall anchors though, but maybe maybe I could screw some 2x4s in I'll have to play that part as it goes I suppose. I believe they sell connectors to jump two boxes together as well, maybe I could use one to exit the box with that knockout cover and duct the wire right into the wall connector

I think I'll need a whole day to get a sheet of drywall and the 2x4 and then get everything installed. I wish there was some kind of template to help figure out how to position the low profile mounting bracket. I'll try to find that jumper you linked me to as well.

Tesla, not an approved contractor, installed mine and it comes down to the HPWC. I didn’t watch the install but it implies there’s more than one way to connect it?

 

[Sophias_dad]

Tesla, not an approved contractor, installed mine and it comes down to the HPWC. I didn’t watch the install but it implies there’s more than one way to connect it?

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I described not bothering to put it into the wall at the top and just come back out a few feet lower.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Just bend the conduit to run on the outside of the drywall and come into the WC from the top. Since the wall is opened up you can add additional supports to attach the WC into.

 

[Glamisduner]

Just bend the conduit to run on the outside of the drywall and come into the WC from the top. Since the wall is opened up you can add additional supports to attach the WC into.

If think I need to unhook that piece of conduit and pull the wires out of it to cut out the bend. I don't have a tubing Bender.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Wall Connector with 14-50 Plug

 

[eprosenx]

Wall Connector with 14-50 Plug

Though this would only do 40 amps of charging fwiw.

 

[Glamisduner]

Wall Connector with 14-50 Plug

It's funny they even made this, the charger that came with the older loaner S could also charge at 40 amps. Plus you could probably do the same thing with the existing HPWC by adding a cord, and selecting the 40 amp setting.

I might have some time to work on this, this weekend... I believe I need to unmount the conduit, and remove the wire to cut it. If I can bend it a little I might be able to mount the HPWC directly to the stud, but if not I will get some deck screws and add some 2x4.

I bought a 60 amp breaker for a replacement since the 3 can only charge at 48 amps anyways. Should I put in an 80 amp breaker instead though? Just in case this becomes a shared wall connector in the future? Or just go with 60 for now and worry about that later?

 

[Dana1]

It's funny they even made this, the charger that came with the older loaner S could also charge at 40 amps. Plus you could probably do the same thing with the existing HPWC by adding a cord, and selecting the 40 amp setting.

I might have some time to work on this, this weekend... I believe I need to unmount the conduit, and remove the wire to cut it. If I can bend it a little I might be able to mount the HPWC directly to the stud, but if not I will get some deck screws and add some 2x4.

I bought a 60 amp breaker for a replacement since the 3 can only charge at 48 amps anyways. Should I put in an 80 amp breaker instead though? Just in case this becomes a shared wall connector in the future? Or just go with 60 for now and worry about that later?

Mines on a dedicated 60 amp. If I thought there was a strong possibility of a second EV in garage and they’d need to charge everyday I’d make changes with that in mind. Make sure your box has the juice for whatever new breaker you choose.

 

[Glamisduner]

Mines on a dedicated 60 amp. If I thought there was a strong possibility of a second EV in garage and they’d need to charge everyday I’d make changes with that in mind. Make sure your box has the juice for whatever new breaker you choose.

Is there a way to calculate that? I have a 200 amp panel but there's more than 200 amps worth of breakers in it already.

 

[Dana1]

Is there a way to calculate that? I have a 200 amp panel but there's more than 200 amps worth of breakers in it already.

Tons of threads on that topic. The Tesla electricians that did mine added up existing breakers and were happy enough to put a 60 amp in. I don’t know what calculation they used, sorry. There have been posts about folks with small main breakers (like 80 or 100 amps) and the ensuing debates on whether it’s safe to have too much breaker capability in the box and manually decide to charge in the middle of the night when other large consumers aren’t on are interesting.

 

[Glamisduner]

Tons of threads on that topic. The Tesla electricians that did mine added up existing breakers and were happy enough to put a 60 amp in. I don’t know what calculation they used, sorry. There have been posts about folks with small main breakers (like 80 or 100 amps) and the ensuing debates on whether it’s safe to have too much breaker capability in the box and manually decide to charge in the middle of the night when other large consumers aren’t on are interesting.

Dang, I would guess it would be ok. We changed to a 200 amp panel from a 100amp to have AC added and solar panels which backfeed.

I know my electrician thought a 60amp would be fine, but never asked about an 80 amp.

 

[eprosenx]

I bought a 60 amp breaker for a replacement since the 3 can only charge at 48 amps anyways. Should I put in an 80 amp breaker instead though? Just in case this becomes a shared wall connector in the future? Or just go with 60 for now and worry about that later?

Since you have 4awg I would totally do an 80 amp breaker just for "future" as long as your electrical service can handle it. Since you recently upgraded to a 200a service it is nearly guaranteed you have the headroom for it. The only delta cost is to go to a 80a breaker from a 60a.

But you would be totally happy at 60a too for the time being, could always upgrade later if needed.

I do think that pulling the wire out and cutting the conduit and running it surface mount is totally the right solution.

Honestly, you can just go to Home Depot, grab a stick of 1" EMT, walk over to the pipe bender section, bend the pipe to 90 degrees roughly where you want it and then go pay for the bent piece of conduit and take it home. Then you can cut on either side of the bend at home with a hacksaw to fit what you need. Make sure to deburr it with a metal file or something (they sell tools for this, but for just one piece of conduit you can make something work). You can also use a pipe cutter on EMT (though again, make sure to deburr).

 

[Glamisduner]

Since you have 4awg I would totally do an 80 amp breaker just for "future" as long as your electrical service can handle it. Since you recently upgraded to a 200a service it is nearly guaranteed you have the headroom for it. The only delta cost is to go to a 80a breaker from a 60a.

But you would be totally happy at 60a too for the time being, could always upgrade later if needed.

I do think that pulling the wire out and cutting the conduit and running it surface mount is totally the right solution.

Honestly, you can just go to Home Depot, grab a stick of 1" EMT, walk over to the pipe bender section, bend the pipe to 90 degrees roughly where you want it and then go pay for the bent piece of conduit and take it home. Then you can cut on either side of the bend at home with a hacksaw to fit what you need. Make sure to deburr it with a metal file or something (they sell tools for this, but for just one piece of conduit you can make something work). You can also use a pipe cutter on EMT (though again, make sure to deburr).

Lowe's sells bent 90 pieces but the piece above has 3 bends so I'm not sure hot to get them to do that. I think I'll try to bend it a little to get it to line up with the stud, but if I can't I'll just brace with 2x4s. Assuming I can figure out how to get a hole in the top of the HPWC bracket! Actually I may have enough conduit with what I have in the wall right now. I guess I'll just chop whatever wire I can't pull back into the pull through boxes.

I think I remember reading that for circuits over 60 amps I have to add an emergency cut off switch, so I might stick with the 60 amp for now, and worry about changing it to something else later.

 

[eprosenx]

Lowe's sells bent 90 pieces but the piece above has 3 bends so I'm not sure hot to get them to do that. I think I'll try to bend it a little to get it to line up with the stud, but if I can't I'll just brace with 2x4s. Assuming I can figure out how to get a hole in the top of the HPWC bracket! Actually I may have enough conduit with what I have in the wall right now. I guess I'll just chop whatever wire I can't pull back into the pull through boxes.

I think I remember reading that for circuits over 60 amps I have to add an emergency cut off switch, so I might stick with the 60 amp for now, and worry about changing it to something else later.

So if you run outside the Sheetrock perhaps you don’t need the three bends? Could just do it with one? Or do you need a slight offset to align with the wall? There are good YouTube videos on conduit bending.

As you mention, you could also shorten the existing piece by taking a couple inches out of the horizontal piece on the ceiling.

You are right about a locking disconnect for anything over 60a. Good point. But my reading is that a simple few dollar metal cage can be put over the breaker to satisfy the requirement.

 

[Glamisduner]

So if you run outside the Sheetrock perhaps you don’t need the three bends? Could just do it with one? Or do you need a slight offset to align with the wall? There are good YouTube videos on conduit bending.

As you mention, you could also shorten the existing piece by taking a couple inches out of the horizontal piece on the ceiling.

You are right about a locking disconnect for anything over 60a. Good point. But my reading is that a simple few dollar metal cage can be put over the breaker to satisfy the requirement.

I don't understand what the lockout does, does it need to be in the same room as the HPWC? My panel is outside on the far end of the house.

Oh and the top of the HPWC just pops off, I just had to remove it from the conduit going into the back to get the proper leverage.

 

[eprosenx]

I don't understand what the lockout does, does it need to be in the same room as the HPWC? My panel is outside on the far end of the house.

I have pasted NEC references in several other threads about this in deep detail, but the gist is that my interpretation of NEC is that the disconnect must be “readily accessible”.

This just means it needs to be accessible easily to anyone who may need access to it for maintenance. There is no prescriptive standard around how far it can be away or whether it has to be in line of sight. So I think the metal clips you can get to shove on the breaker (held on by the panel cover) meet this requirement.

People try to over complicate this and I just don’t think that it would be an issue in most jurisdictions.