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rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
3,099
2,576
Orange County, CA
No subscriptions needed for either. Could also tap your phone to activate the charger too. It's definitely less convenient than Tesla SC, no arguing that, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

As for road trips, I think it depends on where you are going. It's the same reason that people want CCS adapters and the Chademo has a reason to exist. Generally the SC network is much better but there are places with DCFC without Tesla chargers.

I returned that lease back in 2019, but at that point the DCFC chargers were often empty while Superchargers were packed. It's gotten better since then for Supercharger access, at least here in the Bay Area.
I've been misinformed. Sure, you don't need the monthly plan, but at least one of the DCFC purveyors would charge you $.50/kWh without one. Or, only (from memory) $.25/kWh if you paid (again, from memory) a monthly sum of around $20.

Let's look at economics: How much does 50kWh cost at the DCFC non-Tesla stations? What percent of non-Tesla DCFC are more than 150kW? Include any facts like if price quoted is for any Joe with a credit card that drives up.

Not directed at you @Cheburashka, but answers to these questions may be salient to EV adoption. And, IMO, Tesla charges way too much for Supercharging during the day. I understand why they do it, and it does mitigate station traffic during peak charge hours. Off peak hours around SoCal seem to be as low as $.21/kWh in select Supercharger stations. Again, it would be fascinating for an apples-apples comparison.

For those without home charging who rely on DCFC, total cost of ownership needs to be factored in. May the cheapest purveyor win.
 

DJVoorhees

Member
Jun 16, 2019
298
249
New Jersey
The Mustang is the top selling entry-level sports car and has a level of brand recognition that trumps Tesla by a wide margin.

If Ford is truly producing more electric versions of that vehicle, it’s a huge win for them.

LOL!!! It's NOT an electric version of the Ford Mustang it's a SUV and shares NOTHING.
Have you even seen the Mustang E?
Wow, people don t even know what they are discussing!!!!

This is a "mustang"

cq5dam.web.1280.1280[1].jpeg


This is a "mustang mach-e"


ford-mustang-mach-e-2020-003-min[1].png
 

FordMME

Member
Feb 15, 2021
151
166
Kansas
So…. I just quickly skimmed this thread and a few points:
1. Mach E sales are declining due to supply issues. Demand is red hot. This isn’t exactly unique to Mach E, btw, but pointing to lagging sales numbers as an indicator of lagging demand is…. dumb.
2. CCS is working fine. Between ChargePoint and Electrify America, I’ve got plenty of waypoints for road tripping through the Midwest, and I never have to worry about all the spots being full (advantage of CCS not being nearly as popular as Tesla yet).
3. Agree that comparing Mach E sales to ICE Mustangs is totally meaningless.
 
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john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
991
775
Florida
So…. I just quickly skimmed this thread and a few points:
1. Mach E sales are declining due to supply issues. Demand is red hot. This isn’t exactly unique to Mach E, btw, but pointing to lagging sales numbers as an indicator of lagging demand is…. dumb.
2. CCS is working fine. Between ChargePoint and Electrify America, I’ve got plenty of waypoints for road tripping through the Midwest, and I never have to worry about all the spots being full (advantage of CCS not being nearly as popular as Tesla yet).
3. Agree that comparing Mach E sales to ICE Mustangs is totally meaningless.
The hit or miss charging software / communication flakiness frequently reported and the longer time to charge the Mach-e would drive me nuts. And that's not considering the rather poor navigation system. I'll take the 20-30 mile range hit to not have to sacrifice those key areas all else being equal.
 

Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
259
326
916
The hit or miss charging software / communication flakiness frequently reported and the longer time to charge the Mach-e would drive me nuts. And that's not considering the rather poor navigation system. I'll take the 20-30 mile range hit to not have to sacrifice those key areas all else being equal.
Well - all things being equal I’ll take Apple CarPlay and use whatever Nav app I want. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

FordMME

Member
Feb 15, 2021
151
166
Kansas
The hit or miss charging software / communication flakiness frequently reported and the longer time to charge the Mach-e would drive me nuts. And that's not considering the rather poor navigation system. I'll take the 20-30 mile range hit to not have to sacrifice those key areas all else being equal.

There were hiccups early on. Most of those issues seem to have been worked out now. Don’t get me wrong - Tesla still has the superior charging network - but the Mach E’s use of CCS is now what I would rate as “acceptable” and it has a LOT of advantages over the MY.

Well - all things being equal I’ll take Apple CarPlay and use whatever Nav app I want. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Exactly. Factory nav is fine, btw, but also largely irrelevant because the Mach E has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
 

john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
991
775
Florida
There were hiccups early on. Most of those issues seem to have been worked out now. Don’t get me wrong - Tesla still has the superior charging network - but the Mach E’s use of CCS is now what I would rate as “acceptable” and it has a LOT of advantages over the MY.
What are these advantages?
Exactly. Factory nav is fine, btw, but also largely irrelevant because the Mach E has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
Being able to use CarPlay and Android Auto are nice and is an option many Tesla owners wish they had built-in, but luckily, Tesla's nav is good. And besides, a tablet can be a great AA and CPlay device. Not as convenient but will get the job done. If I had to use another app in conjunction with Tesla's Nav, it would be Waze for speed trap info.
'
MME owners are flocking to CPlay and AA because the built-in nav is lacking. But I noticed a lot of complaints about AA and CPlay disconnects and random crashing issues, stuff I can relate to when I had by Camaro and used AA. So they too have their problems.
 

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
The hit or miss charging software / communication flakiness frequently reported and the longer time to charge the Mach-e would drive me nuts. And that's not considering the rather poor navigation system. I'll take the 20-30 mile range hit to not have to sacrifice those key areas all else being equal.
I am going through the hit or miss charging with my taycan. while there are a few instances of the EA units being offline it is rare to find an entire station offline. in my case it is definitely a problem with the car. I don't want to get into the nitty gritty but in simple terms the car is unable to complete the initial "handshake" with the EA charging unit. I have a 50/50 chance of starting a charge without a call into EA to get the charger to override the handshake process. and in two instances the override wouldn't work and was theoretically stranded. the car is at a porsche dealership where they are supposedly linking the car to the mothership in germany to determine where the glitch is.

as you state, any EV driver must have confidence that the car will charge at these high speed chargers first time every time or the car becomes a low range city car, which to me is unacceptable.
 

john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
991
775
Florida
I am going through the hit or miss charging with my taycan. while there are a few instances of the EA units being offline it is rare to find an entire station offline. in my case it is definitely a problem with the car. I don't want to get into the nitty gritty but in simple terms the car is unable to complete the initial "handshake" with the EA charging unit. I have a 50/50 chance of starting a charge without a call into EA to get the charger to override the handshake process. and in two instances the override wouldn't work and was theoretically stranded. the car is at a porsche dealership where they are supposedly linking the car to the mothership in germany to determine where the glitch is.

as you state, any EV driver must have confidence that the car will charge at these high speed chargers first time every time or the car becomes a low range city car, which to me is unacceptable.

Yeah, this is something they'll have to overcome which they will in time. Sorry about your Taycan.
 

JimBob 909

Little Red Raven
Sep 16, 2019
165
130
Southern California
The hit or miss charging software / communication flakiness frequently reported and the longer time to charge the Mach-e would drive me nuts. And that's not considering the rather poor navigation system. I'll take the 20-30 mile range hit to not have to sacrifice those key areas all else being equal.
Our Tesla nav doesn't even have waypoints, but a $100 Tom-Tom does. I wonder if Ford's suspension parts will break as Tesla's do. I love my MS and have a MX ordered, but give Ford a chance. Their EV has been out a few months. I will seriously consider a Mach-E after they've been out a couple years. AND no, Mach-E it is not a Mustang. A Taycan at least resembles a Porsche, the Mach-E looks nothing like a two door, long hood sportscar.
 

john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
991
775
Florida
I wonder if Ford's suspension parts will break as Tesla's do.
With Ford, it's a question of what isn't going to break.
I love my MS and have a MX ordered, but give Ford a chance. Their EV has been out a few months. I will seriously consider a Mach-E after they've been out a couple years. AND no, Mach-E it is not a Mustang. A Taycan at least resembles a Porsche, the Mach-E looks nothing like a two door, long hood sportscar.

Ford has done EVs before. The Ranger and Focus both had electric versions. There were also other vehicles and hybrids. It's not like this is their first foray into the EV world. So the excuse that it's their first doesn't cut it. This is how they've done things for years. They basically put out an attractive vehicle (the bait) with serious flaws and pretend they don't exist once it's in the customer's hands.

Waiting a couple years to purchase one is prudent, but likely futile as long as they're selling.
 
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DblOSmith

Member
Jun 29, 2021
95
52
Missouri
All I know is that in the movie Birdemic, the guy said he drove a hybrid electric Mustang that got 100 miles to the gallon. I knew that classic would be slightly prophetic. :)
 

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