-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
(Reported on 12/26/2015) 11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch!
- Thread starter russman
- Start date
-
- Tags
- California Supercharging USA
A lot of people are knocking the idea of using a diesel generator to provide temporary superchargers during peak hours.
First off, generating electricity does create dirty air through the burning of coal. Some argue that electric cars are not cleaner at all when taking that into account.
Second, diesel is cleaner than fuel.
Third, the other option is for people to take their gas guzzling ICE cars or SUV's on trips instead of their Tesla. Those Ice cars likely get less than 20 MPH, far worse than the earlier chart that showed a generator would calculate out to 37 MPH, plus gas is not as clean as diesel. So the impact on air quality would likely be worse than setting up a temporary Diesel generator a few days out of the year. Cost would likely be a lot less for Tesla as well since putting in 16 superchargers that on all other days would never get used would be more costly than having a few portable units.
First off, generating electricity does create dirty air through the burning of coal. Some argue that electric cars are not cleaner at all when taking that into account.
Second, diesel is cleaner than fuel.
Third, the other option is for people to take their gas guzzling ICE cars or SUV's on trips instead of their Tesla. Those Ice cars likely get less than 20 MPH, far worse than the earlier chart that showed a generator would calculate out to 37 MPH, plus gas is not as clean as diesel. So the impact on air quality would likely be worse than setting up a temporary Diesel generator a few days out of the year. Cost would likely be a lot less for Tesla as well since putting in 16 superchargers that on all other days would never get used would be more costly than having a few portable units.
When someone says that to me I always enjoy pointing them here:
Volts for Oil | Fully Charged - YouTube
This was my point exactly but others are spouting completely baseless reasons with no facts to back them up as to why this isn't a reasonable temporary solution. Seems more of a knee jerk reaction than because it goes against their green sensibilities.
Except that less than 5% of electricity in California comes from burning coal. Natural gas, hydro, nuclear, Geo-thermal, solar and wind are all more common in part due to being cleaner and more efficient than diesel generators. Generators that require maintenance and someone to transport and run them in addition to a lot of fuel.
In cold weather big diesels can be very temperamental about starting. Where I work we depend on backup diesel generators and to ensure they will start the oil and coolant are kept at 150 degrees 24 X 7. Railroads let trains idle in cold weather mostly because they are really hard to start if they cool down.
I think the generator idea, if actually scalable/usable would be fine. If heavy congestion really does create bad press and drive people away from purchasing an EV, the CO2 emitted from temporary diesel generators would likely be offset in the long run by the miles driven on those potential vehicles.
I'm more in agreement with the statement that they should have been able to model this demand and prepare for it in a more permanent way. Hopefully that's the case with Buttonwillow and whatever else is up Tesla's sleeve.
I'm more in agreement with the statement that they should have been able to model this demand and prepare for it in a more permanent way. Hopefully that's the case with Buttonwillow and whatever else is up Tesla's sleeve.
Or just put a bank of HPWC's close by. This is better than nothing while waiting for the SC's to free up. I think this is a reasonable solution rather than planning around these increased capacity events. Tesla employees are not robots to administer these "Free for life" stations during the holidays. This is not the first holiday season where these issues have cropped up so if you are planning on taking your Model S along one of these heavily traveled Supercharger routes, you should expect long wait times.
Coal usage varies dramatically from state to state. In California it's down in the noise:
http://mathscinotes.com/2015/08/electricity-generation-percentage-from-coal-by-state/
I don't know how Washington and Oregon got to 6% each. Each state has one coal powered plant that are rather small and both are scheduled to close in the next decade.
Power sources vary by time of day. All these cars were waiting in broad daylight. Hello solar.
I did the Burbank to Harris Ranch trip in my 85D yesterday. I started with ~240 rated miles and arrived at Harris Ranch with 20 miles left. I was stuck in heavy traffic between Magic Mountain and Tejon though; that probably helped the range.
Yes, I'm almost certain of it.
For those unfamiliar with the area, see Google Maps. (Magic Mountain is an amusement park.)
And for reference, these state elevations of ~1000 to 1200 feet Six Flags Magic Mountain Topography, Elevation, Lat, Long, Maps & More | Trails.com
Santa Clarita, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, so making it to the top of Tejon Pass means another ~3000 foot elevation gain, done at highway speeds.
For those that noticed the big rigs moving very slowly vs. all the other traffic, I always figured it's because that's as fast as they can go up the mountain.
Were you nervous? Did you slow down a lot? I charged at Harris Ranch going to Gilroy and gave extra cushion even though the car said I had enough to go on to the next destination, but it was warning me all along the way to drive slower, because I wouldn't make it.
vitaliy
Member
Yesterday they have started construction of 10 supercharger stalls in Buttonwillow, CA (40 miles from Tejon Ranch).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's probably the "solution". The issue with Tejon Ranch was that it only had 6 stalls. I'm rusty on my queuing theory, but even 4 extra stalls (like at Harris Ranch) would drastically decrease waiting time (well more than the 6/4 proportion).
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
Harris Ranch only has 6 permanent stalls as well. The other 4 stalls are temporary units. (They've been there so long at this point, we think of Harris as being a 10-stall supercharger now.)
Wonder why the same thing can't be done at Tejon? They definitely have the 4 extra parking spaces, just to the right of the current stalls. So it must be a problem getting enough power to that site. (In fact, isn't Tejon solar powered? Hmm.)
I believe this would be a M/D/c queuing model; that is, c Supercharger stalls, arrivals occurring according to a Poisson process, and service times are basically deterministic. M/M/c would imply that the service times follow an exponential distribution, and I don't think that's accurate in this case (at least at Tejon). I'm a bit rusty as well, but 10 stalls at Tejon alone would have taken care of an average queue of up to 24 cars in my loose calculations (assuming a conservative 60 minute charge time).
I have quoted your post in the Buttonwillow Supercharger thread. Can you provide a source for your assertion of 10 stalls at that location? I will be passing by there this Saturday and will check it out. Thanks.
vitaliy
Member
Similar threads
