(Reported on 12/26/2015) 11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch!

[bylund]

Make sense. The local business owners are there to casually monitor the wait time, and might act accordingly if space, permitting, and utility power is readily available. Just wondering when will private charging station can be commercial viable if it is priced competitively to gas? Would Tesla be willing to sell the supercharger unit to private commercial entity at cost?

They have sold two to a business owner in Sweden. It's called fastcharger rather than supercharger, as it's limited to 60 kW.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...er-Not-quite-a-supercharger-This-guy-bought-2
http://teslaclubsweden.se/fastchargern-i-karlskrona/ (in Swedish, but with a picture)

 

[purplewalt]

We agree that the recent wait line at Tejon is unusual, and that is exactly why those drivers pictured waiting in line did not anticipate it.
The flaw I see in your proposal is that those drivers photographed waiting in a line to charge at Tejon did not know in advance that all the chargers were in use and that other cars were waiting. That is a very unusual situation at Tejon, as you pointed out in your post.
As has been discussed many times before on TMC, Tesla has real time information as to how many cars are charging at an SC, their state of charge and how long it will be before they have enough charge to proceed, and even how many other Teslas are parked very close to the SC but not charging and the state of charge of those cars and how long they will need to charge before they can proceed, as well as other cars headed toward Tejon because it lies along the route in their nav.
Using all that information, Tesla could inform all Teslas within hundreds of miles from Tejon that have a nav route set for Tejon as to the level of activity at Tejon and offer alternate routes that avoid Tejon or inform drivers the option of slowing down so they could avoid Tejon altogether (when Buttonwillow SC comes online that will certainly be a feasible alternative, but as of now it isn't for most cars headed for north for a charge at Tejon).
I could go on and on describing how such a system would work, but you get the idea. I am confident that Tesla has such a system on their "to do" list but have no idea when it will actually be implemented. Surely it is doable, and is a fairly complex problem, but it is a solvable one.

Most respectfully, when something like "The Wait" may be ahead, it is sometimes good to have a fully implemented Plan B.
So when you arrive at a Supercharger (in an S85), and it has a long line, if you have driven using Plan B, you now have Options.
You can still wait if there is only a short line, or calmly proceed to the next Supercharger, because you can still have adequate range to make it there.
Will you always know if there is going to be a line and a wait at a Supercharger?
No.
Can you do something about it should there be a line?
Absolutely.

If you have driven using Plan A, the only Option one has is to get in the queue and wait your turn to charge.
Because you have already expended most of the range of your battery.
Maybe ONE HOUR AND 45 MINUTES, if not more.
And Old saying: "You can spend your dollar anyway you wish, but you can only spend it once."
The same is true for range in a battery, once the charge has been greatly reduced, only way to get it back is to recharge, or go down a very long hill and get some regen.

And I would hazard to guess that very few drivers ever consider using Plan B.

TM currently has a lot of oars in the water, all rowing like mad.
TM might also start using the same "power" to limit who can charge for free at certain locations if they sense/know the Supercharger service is being abused by locals.
As the saying goes: "Be careful with what you ask for, because you may get it."

Knowledge is Power.
Using Knowledge is Genius.


The other interesting tidbit is drivers always expecting to have "another" Supercharger added/built to cover a small gap, in this case Buttonwillow.
The cards are what the cards are.
Simply put, Play the hand you currently have, and quit your grousing.

 

[MsElectric]

With the current production ramp up schedule, within about an year or two they will be pretty much doubling the Model S fleet so hopefully the number of superchargers will also be doubled.

 

[luvnMyTS]

All the same silly arguments by Tesla lovers who refuse to take the blinders off and see that their beloved Tesla is NOT PERFECT!! Same arguments as last time this happened over Thanksgiving.

Gets annoying to read all the people defending that this is not a problem and everything is just great. Telling you to drive slower, change your plans and drive on different days, skip chargers. Sure you "can" do all of that, but the point is, you spend close to (or more) than six figures on this car, you SHOULDN'T HAVE TO do those things!!

This is why the EV market will remain at 1% for the foreseeable future. Tesla doesn't advertise free charging on long distance trips with the caveat that you might have to wait 3 hours to get charging spot. They brag about how fast you can charge and that it's only a slight inconvenience versus an ICE car. This IS a problem. Waiting 1, 2 or 3 hours in line is a problem. Keep in mind people, there are only 100,000 Tesla's on the road. Telsa plans to nearly double that next year, thus doubling the problem and wait times. What happens when they start selling 500,000 cars a year??

I love my car, but would be pissed off if I got stuck in that line. And people seeing this issue that are thinking about a Tesla, will think twice. EV owners accept the inconvenience of having to charge, but there's a limit for all of us. Turning what would be a 2-3 hour trip into a 6-8 hour marathon is likely well beyond most people's limits.

Wake up people and see reality. Funny thing is, all those arguing that it's not a problem are those that were not stuck in the line!!

Tesla really needs to re-think the battery swap program, even if only on busy weekends. I'm sure each and every one of those cars in line would have gladly paid $50-$60 to get on their way!! I wrote a whole thing last time this came up about how they could implement a battery lease program so you don't have to worry about returning the battery, so I won't re-write it all again here.

I hope they find a way to resolve this issue soon. Otherwise word is going to get out that Tesla is not prepared to have another 100,000 cars on the road, let alone 500,000 and will absolutely hurt sales, stock prices and the company overall.

The movie studios use those HUGE generators when they're on location. If they don't want to revisit the battery swap program, then maybe on Holiday weekends when they know it's going to be a problem, the should bring in some of those generators to add temporary chargers. Not a good long term solution, but could be an immediate solution to avoid pissing off a bunch more people over New Years, Easter, etc, etc, until they come up with a more viable long term solution.

 

[russman]

Easier said then done. Plan B would have been to charge at Burbank full and TRY to skip Tejon to get to Harris Ranch. Using EVTripplanner, it requires 249 rated miles, personally I don't want to be stuck between Tejon and Harris Ranch in the middle of nowhere trying to float into Harris Ranch. That's cutting it too close and in this case, the weather wasn't bad because there was no rain and it's been colder here too.

 

[Aqua]

My first reaction to that photo was actually really positive. Seems more like a "look how popular/successful this car is" moment than a "look how dysfunctional this car is" one. As someone who recently placed an order, the idea of being part of a Tesla swarm descending upon a parking lot in the middle of nowhere sounds naïvely alluring.

 

[RDoc]

Ugh, I agree about the "typical (Compliance) J1772s. I'd like to see the end of anemic 30-Amp as soon as attrition allows.
I suppose I'm envisioning 80A minimum, on up thru various CHAdeMO and competitive DC charge. At these mid-trip depots/feedlots.

Multi-hour Destinations of course can deploy the more economical J stuff but please relegate that 30A end of things to the overnights.

But the problem with any kind of DC charging is the cost of installation, both the equipment and the grid connection, not to mention the danger of demand charges for the business. For any small business I can think of, such an installation would not make any sense financially unless the charger would increase the number of patrons by a lot, which seems pretty unlikely if the location were on a Supercharger route.

For Tesla, building Superchargers does make a lot of business sense because it answers one of the main questions people have with buying BEVs, it's a form of marketing. I'm afraid this kind of highly visible inconvenience will be pretty damaging to BEV acceptance if it continues.

BTW, Tesla is a very good example of free enterprise!

 

[AudubonB]

...personally I don't want to be stuck between Tejon and Harris Ranch in the middle of nowhere trying to float into Harris Ranch

One important ingredient in creating a Plan B is to reassess how important it is to travel at 80mph, as a recent poster wrote was one of his priorities. This is where those of us from the North Country can lend our experience. The paucity of still-open fuel stations along immense swaths of roads in northern Canada and Alaska has meant that by bitter - and, sometimes, bitter cold - experience we have learned how best to allocate fuel tanks and lead feet. Many times traveling at 40mph makes the difference between getting to the next fueling stop more slowly versus not getting there at all.

 

[MsElectric]

My first reaction to that photo was actually really positive. Seems more like a "look how popular/successful this car is" moment than a "look how dysfunctional this car is" one. As someone who recently placed an order, the idea of being part of a Tesla swarm descending upon a parking lot in the middle of nowhere sounds naïvely alluring.

Except this is really bad publicity for Tesla and EV car ownership when thousands of families on the road heading back home see that if they were in an electric car, they would essentially be stranded with cranky children for an additional 2-3 hours waiting to charge.

I am surprised someone has not stepped in and installed a few electric chargers close to the supercharger. I bet many of those cars waiting would have gladly paid $50 for a charge so they wouldn't have to wait. I guess the issue is that the SC gets backed dup like this only on several days of the year to justify the cost.

 

[purplewalt]

The movie studios use those HUGE generators when they're on location. If they don't want to revisit the battery swap program, then maybe on Holiday weekends when they know it's going to be a problem, the should bring in some of those generators to add temporary chargers. Not a good long term solution, but could be an immediate solution to avoid pissing off a bunch more people over New Years, Easter, etc, etc, until they come up with a more viable long term solution.

Actually, this idea might have some merit.
All the Supercharger Towers (inside the fenced area) are linked in Pairs, A and B.
The first to arrive (@ A) is charging at fullest capacity, while whoever arrives next (@ B) is charging at a much slower rate.
Eventually it switches, and the B pedestal is charging at a faster rate.

IF there were a way to implement the additional power from the generator into the towers and through the pedestals, then ALL pedestals would be charging at optimum rate for each of their packs requirements.

Very interesting and provocative thinking how to work around a temporary (holiday induced) situation.

 

[efusco]

I don't see this as a "huge" problem, because this only occurs 3 or 4 times a year during heaviest road travel holidays.

Perhaps if most of the drivers deployed a slightly different strategy, most of you would not even need to be stopping @ Tejon Ranch: Simply drive at a slower speed.

The S85 drivers could slow down a bit and circumvent stopping @ Tejon Ranch and be on their way.
The 60 drivers will need to stop and recharge.
When I drove to the West Coast last year, I stopped @ Barstow, and made it to Harris Ranch (231 miles) on that single charge (Mojave did not exist).

You guys (in S85) that are waiting at Tejon Ranch are wasting more time waiting for a recharge @ the Supercharger than simply driving at slower speeds.
It just takes a different driving strategy than what you have been using.
What if you just went directly to Oxnard? (206 miles)
Or Culver City? (199 miles)
Or use a L2 charge somewhere along the route?

Yes, it takes discipline, and practice.
You already have the EV with the most range in the world.
Why not learn simply learn how to use it effectively?
And then you can quit queuing up to wait at the "only Supercharger" that will get you to your next destination.

Check out the duration of time the OP waited in line, before getting to the Supercharger.
ONE HOUR AND 45 MINUTES.
Driving (slower and) past Tejon Ranch to the next destination is actually a time SAVER.

This, exactly. Not a huge "terrible" problem as some have said in this thread. This is a rare unfortunate annoyance. I don't have any photos of my having to wait at a supercharger...because there are NO Superchargers on any of the routes I normally travel. I have made more than one trip to/from my home and St. Louis driving at 55-60 MPH with no heat and tailgating semis just to be sure I made the 220+ mile drive on he hilly Missouri interstates. Yes, Cali has a lot of Teslas, and that's great. And, IMO, it's great that they have as extensive of a SCh network as they do. But more energies need to go toward completing the major gaps in the nationwide network before fixing a "problem" like Tejon that occurs a couple times per year and could probably be avoided if drivers either hypermiled or planned to travel at off-peak times. I've been making major adjustments to my trip planning for over 3 years now, I think Californian owners can adjust or be patient once a year.

 

[eloder]

As others mentioned, generic fast charges (not supercharger) could still work out because of non-Tesla vehicles. I'm in a low EV city in the Midwest and even some businesses here have caught on, and I usually will see at least one used at every Whole Foods I go to. I now also visit Whole Foods more for things like drinks because of those chargers in my Leaf.

Also, my Leaf's fast charger network has nothing between cities (not terribly helpful), and every urban charging center has a single charger that is also shared with a Combo CCS charger too. Despite Tesla's charger, other car makers are not even remotely close.

 

[Mark Z]

This discussion reminds me of one of the last times I visited Tejon. It wasn't busy, but another Tesla driver was a bit slower on the freeway and when I passed him, he thought I was racing to get to the Supercharger first. He soon zoomed by me in a hurry, I relaxed and arrived a minute later.

Elon mentioned long ago that road trips in Model S were for leisurely trips.

When I travel by Tesla, adding a full day to the travel schedule makes the adventure more relaxed and fun. Hotel stops must be flexible and buffered arrival times for static events are a must. Even ICE cars and jet airliners can have delays. Weather causes major issues, especially in winter.

In this situation, hopefully the group who are waiting should make the best of it and have some conversation, extra passengers could volunteer for a food run so single drivers don't miss moving forward, and if the weather is nice, talk positively to the visitors who are laughing at the line.

My best trip memories are of making the best of a situation. My 1994 Cadillac 2 day breakdown at Grand Junction in 2003 late one Saturday took the prize. I used my Segway to travel around town while waiting for the dealer to open on Monday. A true vacation day. Recently, Tesla rolled out the red carpet when my charge port wouldn't function. Pulling into the Fremont Service center at 10 PM, a van to the hotel was waiting. Even GM didn't pay for a hotel night back in 2003, but back then, no one got away without riding my electric transporter. No falls using Segway designed technology with my instruction. Service manager, cashier or technician, everyone got on and rode safely.

 

[russman]

That means EVs will never become mainstream, because most people I know don't want to sacrifice like that. The whole goal is to make EVs mainstream and already perception is hard to overcome. If I told anyone this, no one would buy a Model S.

This, exactly. Not a huge "terrible" problem as some have said in this thread. This is a rare unfortunate annoyance. I don't have any photos of my having to wait at a supercharger...because there are NO Superchargers on any of the routes I normally travel. I have made more than one trip to/from my home and St. Louis driving at 55-60 MPH with no heat and tailgating semis just to be sure I made the 220+ mile drive on he hilly Missouri interstates. Yes, Cali has a lot of Teslas, and that's great. And, IMO, it's great that they have as extensive of a SCh network as they do. But more energies need to go toward completing the major gaps in the nationwide network before fixing a "problem" like Tejon that occurs a couple times per year and could probably be avoided if drivers either hypermiled or planned to travel at off-peak times. I've been making major adjustments to my trip planning for over 3 years now, I think Californian owners can adjust or be patient once a year.

 

[efusco]

Easier said then done. Plan B would have been to charge at Burbank full and TRY to skip Tejon to get to Harris Ranch. Using EVTripplanner, it requires 249 rated miles, personally I don't want to be stuck between Tejon and Harris Ranch in the middle of nowhere trying to float into Harris Ranch. That's cutting it too close and in this case, the weather wasn't bad because there was no rain and it's been colder here too.

Burbank to Harris Ranch is 188 miles...that's the distance t the Supercharger closest to where i live...I consider that my "easiest" trip. If you have an 85kWh pack you should easily make that, even in cold weather, at 60mph. Completely reasonable.

 

[TexasEV]

Wonder if next year or sometime soon if Tesla can implement 800V charging that Porsche plans to offer in their EV. They are claiming 80% capacity in 15 minutes...

No, and neither will Porsche. It's vaporware to keep Porsche customers to hold out longer on buying a Tesla.

 

[AEdennis]

Efusco, Burbank to Harris Ranch also has a ton of elevation change (Up and down the Grapevine) and If a person's destination is on the "other" side of the LA basin, the traffic alone would be a 1h detour in barely moving traffic.

As I mentioned before, we're looking at 1 of 2 routes that service N-S travel and wildfires have shut down 1 of the routes... congestion should be expected.

 

[efusco]

That means EVs will never become mainstream, because most people I know don't want to sacrifice like that. The whole goal is to make EVs mainstream and already perception is hard to overcome. If I told anyone this, no one would buy a Model S.

You miss my point...I want it to be easy, eventually. But the nationwide network should be the priority to allow people all over to be able to a means of traveling anywhere. Currently that isn't feasable in several areas of the country. I'm sorry, sincerely, that people have to wait on rare occasions because of multiple factors--seasonal surges, time of day surges, poor planning for alternative means of getting to their destination without stopping (ie. the aforementioned Burbank to Harris Ranch leg), or simple lack of patience. Currently, despite there being many owners in my area, none of us can, in any practical way, travel to the South East without going many hundreds of miles out of our way. And I can't even make it to St. Louis any more (due to battery degradation) in the winter without major speed compromises...this is an every day inconvenience for those of us in my part of the world...we have to make sacrifices or compromises every day...not just a rare couple of days per year. Bare numbers may, currently, impact more owners in California, but we need more energy and focus on the nationwide network, then we can begin targeting those areas that seek peak drive time issues a couple times per year.

 

[mmccord]

Should at least throw a few hpwc there. If you're waiting for two hours anyway, might as well pick up some range while you wait.

 

[efusco]

Sincere question...any idea how many people were exceeding their necessary amount of charge? In other words, how many needed 100 miles of range to make their destination, but stayed on the charger until they hit 90%/200 miles or more? That seems like it could have caused much of the backkup. Seems like you should have been able to cycle at least 12 cars through those 6 chargers every hour if people were only taking what they needed.