Reports that Chevrolet Bolt is a threat to Model 3 are deeply uninformed

[Sparky]

I honestly feel sorry for the GM engineers. They made a good car and were sabotaged by the distribution side of the company. (As well as the production side who didn't design the factory to produce a significant number.) ...

I agree it's a good car. I drove one for about 20 mins when they first were available in SoCal. Similar experience as OP with the salesperson.
The one I drove was $44k out the door. I thought it was solid, and substantial progress over the Spark but just too darn small for the price, before considering the ugly console. Much preferred the Volt.

I think Hyundai is perhaps best-positioned; the Ioniq Electric got consistent rave reviews, they're actively ramping up production, increasing the battery size for next year's model, and I haven't heard the sort of complaints about dealer behavior which I have about GM dealers.

This is interesting. So, I know the smart-phone analogies to EVs are hackneyed but I never thought it was the iPhone that killed Blackberry and Nokia. It was HTC and Samsung combined with Google's Android OS. I'm looking for a company that comprehends the desire that Tesla has invented and has the ability to quickly get to scale with batteries and compelling vehicles that replace their existing fleet. Dunno if that's in the cards for Hyundai but perhaps. Ioniq-BEV is currently a pretty half-assed ICE platform made EV. But, maybe they'll get the idea. China could be a significant new-entrant to the US market with an ICE-crusher EV IMO. But, I think their home-market is too needy at this stage to enter the U.S. We'll see.

 

[X Fan]

^^^^
Agree with your Samsung view. Given their manufacturing prowess, they could be a factor.

FWIW: Every Car company (and in particular the Asian companies I worked with) have had self-driving programs in place for several years.

However, they haven't viewed batteries/investment in battery production as needed.....that is the achilles heel of all of Tesla's competitors.

 

[rxlawdude]

Why would I want to put a 32 pound turkey under the hood of my car? I'd much rather put it in the hatchback storage area along with the rest of my groceries where it can be protected from hot summer temperatures by the cabin A/C system.

I guess you missed the "Thanksgiving" part, so summer temps aren't an issue. The turkey was fully cooked and dressed. Why the frunk? To keep the turkey smell out of the car, and to use the hatch area for all the other Thanksgiving fixings.

Seriously, Jeff, I'm not picking on you, but accusations from non-Tesla owners that Tesla owners are "fanbois" generally come from the same people who are "fanbois" of competing (and sometimes non-competing) products.

When are you getting your Model 3?

 

[brucet999]

It's GM...notwithstanding how they "built" it, their company views this product under an ICE lens.....

It does seem that GM engineers did a good job building Bolt as a long range BEV, only to have marketing reduce it to a compliance car.

 

[AudubonB]

Two years ago we hosted for four nights the Bolt's chief design engineer; up for some ptarmigan hunting. A very sobersided yet charismatic person and obviously extremely dedicated to his profession. He tried to hide his disappointment and concerns that I retained all my shares in Tesla; I acted the same with respect to my regrets his project likely was not going to be well treated by the company for whom he works.

I am cheered at the nice words some of you have for a person you likely have not met.

 

[Jeff N]

Seriously, Jeff, I'm not picking on you, but accusations from non-Tesla owners that Tesla owners are "fanbois" generally come from the same people who are "fanbois" of competing (and sometimes non-competing) products.

In 1,600 posts during the last ~6 years I don't think I've ever called anyone here a fanboi.

When are you getting your Model 3?

I'm planning on 2020 hindsight. I'm going to hold out until then to give Tesla a chance to work out any initial quality issues, add a few refinements, make sure they have all the necessary AP FSD hardware and computer HW, maybe refine the 2170 cells, etc.

I realize the tax credit may fizzle by then but perhaps it will be replaced or supplemented by new credits or rebates and component prices will drop. I'll be part of a "second wave". If sales falter due to a recession etc. and Tesla is struggling I may step in sooner, if needed. Aside from my Bolt, the other car is a 14 year old Prius. It's going to need replacing soon unless we decide we can get by easily with one car.

 

[harry]

A previous poster listed the many features which the Premium Bolt offers which the Premium Package Model 3 apparently does not. You can review that post if you like.

I didn't buy one for one reason - the CCS charging system. Tesla's Super charging network is just superb, and it makes our trans-continental trips in our S easier and better in every way than in our old Lincoln Town Cars. Without either CHAdeMO or Supercharger access, in my mind it can't compete. However, for those who are not concerned about long distance travel, it drives OK and really does have more features.

 

[rxlawdude]

In 1,600 posts during the last ~6 years I don't think I've ever called anyone here a fanboi.
...
I'm planning on 2020 hindsight. I'm going to hold out until then to give Tesla a chance to work out any initial quality issues, add a few refinements, make sure they have all the necessary AP FSD hardware and computer HW, maybe refine the 2170 cells, etc.
...
Aside from my Bolt, the other car is a 14 year old Prius. It's going to need replacing soon unless we decide we can get by easily with one car.

I didn't say you called others "fanbois," so we can put that to rest. But until you actually own one, it's really hard to wrap your head around how delightful Tesla vehicles are to drive and road trip in. You have to be very patient to take your Bolt on a road trip, unless you can find CCS chargers and overnight charging at hotels. A very, very far cry from the Supercharging network.

I loved my 2004 Prius BC. That was a truly advanced car with a lot of fun bells and whistles for the time. I gave it to my son when I got my 2011 Prius. It had about 180,000 miles on the clock. My son drove it another five years, and at 250,000 miles he bought a 2017 Prius.
One of my neighbors was an executive with Toyota USA, and we've talked a lot about where Toyota is going - mixed messages about BEV, and really only half-hearted fuel cell development. (Only 33 H2 stations in the entire progressive state of California.)

Peace.

 

[Jeff N]

A previous poster listed the many features which the Premium Bolt offers which the Premium Package Model 3 apparently does not. You can review that post if you like.

You might be referring to me. That list was actually features in a fully optioned Bolt vs an entry-level Model 3 since that is how an earlier poster framed the issue.

I didn't buy one for one reason - the CCS charging system. Tesla's Super charging network is just superb, and it makes our trans-continental trips in our S easier and better in every way than in our old Lincoln Town Cars. Without either CHAdeMO or Supercharger access, in my mind it can't compete. However, for those who are not concerned about long distance travel, it drives OK and really does have more features.

The Model 3 clearly also has some features that are not currently available on the Bolt.

Tesla's Supercharger network is indeed excellent and is rapidly improving. If you are driving trans-continental trips then Tesla is clearly the way to go right now. VW and perhaps others will be quickly building out their own Supercharger network clones so travel through most parts of the US on major interstates will soon (in 2-4 years) be practical in the Bolt and other non-Tesla cars.

 

[Jeff N]

But until you actually own one, it's really hard to wrap your head around how delightful Tesla vehicles are to drive and road trip in.

I borrowed a Model S P85 for a week long road trip from San Francisco to Las Vegas during CES in January.

I've also done 3 trips in my Bolt from SF to LA and just got back from a 2,600 mile trip from SF to the national parks in Utah. Great fun. You might be surprised that long trips in a Bolt can be easy with a little advanced planning to quite a few areas, even today.

 

[jbcarioca]

Two years ago we hosted for four nights the Bolt's chief design engineer; up for some ptarmigan hunting. A very sobersided yet charismatic person and obviously extremely dedicated to his profession...

I am cheered at the nice words some of you have for a person you likely have not met.

Well said. I have had the pleasure of working closely with a number of high GM execs. They have almost all been exceptional people. They have also been severely constrained by bureaucratic realities that consistently suppressed excellence by managing through committees and other innovation-sapping processes. I found working with them to be stifling in some respects, hugely satisfying in others. As a devoted 'car guy' I thought it was entertaining that some of them always wanted to drive my cars.

One reason I hold TSLA is my conviction that they'll always avoid complacency.

 

[harry]

You might be referring to me. That list was actually features in a fully optioned Bolt vs an entry-level Model 3 since that is how an earlier poster framed the issue.


The Model 3 clearly also has some features that are not currently available on the Bolt.

Tesla's Supercharger network is indeed excellent and is rapidly improving. If you are driving trans-continental trips then Tesla is clearly the way to go right now. VW and perhaps others will be quickly building out their own Supercharger network clones so travel through most parts of the US on major interstates will soon (in 2-4 years) be practical in the Bolt and other non-Tesla cars.

Jeff,

Thanks for the corrections -- should have taken the time to re-read your post!

Harry

 

[Zythryn]

As an owner of both a Model S and a Bolt, I am constantly dismayed by the Tesla zealot's stubborn refusal to admit the value in any vehicle other than their beloved Teslas. This sort of narrowminded arrogance is precisely what turns people off to Tesla. These people are doing more to hurt the brand, and EV adoption in general, than help it.

Tforme, have you been to the Volt forum?
Every manufacturer has such blowhards. Don't let the minority (of either Volt or Tesla fanatics) paint the whole fan base.

 

[Tforme]

I occasionally visit the Bolt forums. But I don't see anywhere near the level of animosity toward other EV's that exists here.

An interesting note: I've had several Tesla representatives, owner advisers and product specialist, tell me please do not visit the Tesla forums. They seem aware that the general vibe isn't conducive to advancing the Tesla mission.

 

[harry]

I occasionally visit the Bolt forums. But I don't see anywhere near the level of animosity toward other EV's that exists here.

An interesting note: I've had several Tesla representatives, owner advisers and product specialist, tell me please do not visit the Tesla forums. They seem aware that the general vibe isn't conducive to advancing the Tesla mission.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I find it interesting that some Tesla reps may not want us to visit the forums. I know that many of them do so themselves. I think, however, that it drives techs crazy when something is posted to the forum that is speculative and incorrect. Sometimes they can't correct those posts because the answer might not be public knowledge --- which brings up a whole other issue about Tesla's sometimes-unwarranted secrecy. For example, would it have killed Tesla to clarify the heater system early on, rather than let speculative threads proliferate?

However, in spite of the occasional errors, I find the forums to be invaluable, and have learned a lot of things which have enhanced and improved either our cars of our efficient use of them.

 

[McRat]

I occasionally visit the Bolt forums. But I don't see anywhere near the level of animosity toward other EV's that exists here.

An interesting note: I've had several Tesla representatives, owner advisers and product specialist, tell me please do not visit the Tesla forums. They seem aware that the general vibe isn't conducive to advancing the Tesla mission.

Forums are a two-edged sword. They are a great way find great information, and a great way to find manure.
The techs of all brands need to use up some of their time each day to answer questions about whether the car is spying on them to the NSA, etc. What the techs do not always count is the times the owners tells them it's P0101 code and the baro and manifold sensors pressures do not line up, which is what is causing it, NOT the MAFS. The owner knows this because he read about how to troubleshoot the cause on the net.

Sort of sad I still know what a P101 is eh?

 

[jim5359]

The stale Bolt inventories at Chevy dealers says it all. The car is DOA.

"The Chevrolet Bolt EV, GM's 238-mile battery electric hatchback, set a new monthly sales record of 1,937 deliveries in its eighth month on sale—the highest number for any electric car in July."

Plug-in electric car sales for July: Bolt EV, Prime, Volt, Teslas, Leaf lead the pack

I hardly would call the Bolt DOA, unless you consider all electric cars DOA.

 

[jbcarioca]

"The Chevrolet Bolt EV, GM's 238-mile battery electric hatchback, set a new monthly sales record of 1,937 deliveries in its eighth month on sale—the highest number for any electric car in July."

Plug-in electric car sales for July: Bolt EV, Prime, Volt, Teslas, Leaf lead the pack

I hardly would call the Bolt DOA, unless you consider all electric cars DOA.

The Bolt pretty clearly has a sales problem, a marketing problem and within that context a publicly perceived positioning problem. I strongly doubt that the car itself really has a problem. Anyway, there's a healthy waiting list in several European markets if the Opel Ampera E reports are true. That might suggest GM has been treating the car as a US compliance car, and is less concerned about Europe now that they've saddled PSA with their loss-making activities. I think PSA will do well quickly, but they need the Ampera E and derivatives, probably in healthy volumes.

As for DOA, nope! Not unless GM kills it intentionally. In any event they're much more concerned about the sudden drop in big SUV/pickup sales in the US, so Bolt is not a major preoccupation for the GM management. We almost all wish that it were, but it's not!

 

[jim5359]

The Bolt pretty clearly has a sales problem, a marketing problem and within that context a publicly perceived positioning problem.

Again, it's selling better than any other electric car out there and is on pace with GMs original projections, which were to sell 30K next year. How is that a sales problem?

Many here are using Elan Musk's M3 sales projections and reservations as the gold standard for determining if the Bolt is successful. I seriously doubt that even the M3 will live up to those standards. The M3 isn't even on sale to the general public yet. Until then, the Bolt is currently the best selling electric vehicle, so give credit where credit is do.

 

[Jeff N]

Many here are using Elan Musk's M3 sales projections and reservations as the gold standard for determining if the Bolt is successful. I seriously doubt that even the M3 will live up to those standards.

Yes. It's going to be interesting if/when Tesla deliveries fail to live up to Elon's very high expectations. Are we going to see "the Model 3 is DOA!" hand wringing if it only sells at a pace of 100,000 cars a year?