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Discussion in 'Model S: Interior & Exterior' started by igor, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. igor

    igor Member

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    I have to configure my car and need some help from owners. I like to be able to accelerate quickly. For that reason I am considering the P. I will likely only drive to work and back (10 miles). Supercharging is not as important because I feel that this will not happen in my area (Miami/Ft Lauderdale) for some time.
    The dilema is....is that 4.4 seconds on the peformance worth the extra 20k over the 60 kW 5.9 seconds? I do not have the capabilty to drive the 60KW here. I have test driven the P and fell in love.

    The price tage for the P is hefty. The question is........Is the P that much faster and more powerful than the 60?

    It seems like the 60kw is a better deal considering that I do not need supercharging. I can always add that later, correct?

    Also, what do owners think about resale and battery degradation. It seems like the 60kW is a better value in that regard as well.

    Thanks for any advice
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    There's no way to "justify" the Performance. You either want it or you don't. It is noticeably faster.

    You cannot add supercharging later.

    Degradation will be less on the bigger pack. Tesla knows this and provides a better warranty on the bigger packs.
     
  3. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    #3 Alpha, Jan 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
    I'm in the same boat. Having a tough time getting my mind to stop wanting the performance.
    I did get a chance to ride in a non-performance though, and the acceleration is also out of this world.
    It really is!
    I still haven't decided though.
    Ultimately it comes down to the money.
    Compare the 0-60 time on the 60kWh to any other car you have owned. It's likely faster.
    Even if the pure 0-60 time is not faster, likely the 0-40 and 0-30 will beat just about any non-EV on the road because of the extremely high torque at low RPM that an ICE car cannot touch -- that's where it counts too- accelerating on an on-ramp, or passing a car.

    Why would the resale on the 60kWh be better? That doesn't make sense, it's less range.
    Also if you don't get supercharging you would really be hurting the resale value.. in my mind.
    That's the main reason I won't (and many others) touch the 40kWh - I want the supercharger access
    (even though it's going to be a commuter car 95% + of the time)
     
  4. William13

    William13 Member

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    My rule is only go expensive (P) if you are paying cash.

    It is very fast. I have a lot of trouble avoiding going too fast. I floor it several times a day. Always in safe areas. I have never done this before. It is addicting. Smooth and fast like a metal roller coaster.
     
  5. igor

    igor Member

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    Thanks Doug and Alpha.
    I presently own an Audi S5 and do enjoy going 0 to 60 quickly. Maybe I meant to "justify" the price difference. Its a huge price dif for the 4.4 seconds. Not being able to test drive the 60 Kw makes it tough. Also difficult is that fact that many say that in reality the velocity curve of the 60kw and the perf is very close in the 0 to 60. Its after that where the Perf is a better car. The reason I think that the perf has less resale is that it is so much more expensive. The sheer price difference makes the perf depreciate more in terms of actual dollars.
    A lot of bloggers say that the 85 is the best value because of the range and the supercharger included.
    Has anyone drivern both? What are your thoughts?
     
  6. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    That's probably a good rule to follow... trouble is, the mind keeps coming up with all kinds of justifications on why I should get the P...
    But ultimately I won't do it if I can't really afford it. Still working on my financial projections - have to decide by 2/8

    - - - Updated - - -

    Igor, when do you have to finalize by? I've found that if you get involved with the local Tesla club, it's pretty easy to get opportunities to ride in them and even drive them.
    Just yesterday I got to drive a roadster ... (first time, that was a rush!)
    Also got to drive a perf. -- I'm trying to get a test drive in a non-perf as well before finalizing -- I think I will be able to.
     
  7. igor

    igor Member

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    I have 3 months to finalize. How would I go about getting involved in the "local club"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry....three weeks
     
  8. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    Why not split the difference and go with the 85kWh non-performance version? 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. You'd have better range than the 60kWh version.

    The Model S Performance is akin to a BMW M5. If you were buying a BMW would you go for the M5, or would a slightly lesser 5-series do the trick?
     
  9. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    I started here on TMC actually, and asked around about local people - pretty quickly I was pointed to the appropriate threads for Atlanta area - and then found the Atlanta facebook group - I joined that, and started going to the events, and meeting the locals - went to the 3rd and largest event just yesterday (about 10 Model S's showed up!) Pics here: Tesla Motors Fans - Atlanta, January 2013 - Meetup Event (Jan. 29th))

    I'm sure there is something similar in your area (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale.)
     
  10. igor

    igor Member

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    Actually the 650 i gran coupe seems more like the perf to me. I would think that 65 K for 60kw is a better value giving 5.9 sec. The 85kw is 5.6 but costs 10k more, for an additonal 3 sec advantage may not be worth it.
     
  11. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    Because the Model S is a pretty rare car, I would think it would not depreciate like a normal car.
    But then again, if they ramp up production a lot more and the price of the battery pack falls (or 2nd gen Model S is a huge improvement) I could be wrong.

    Main reason I want perf. fully loaded is because I plan on driving it for a very long time and I want to get the best car I possibly can because I will be driving it for many years. Also just want that ego satisfaction of being able to smoke all those M5s, Panamera, etc. when I feel like it. Kind of immature I know, but it is what it is :smile:
     
  12. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    That would be a good solution.



    The performance is crazy fast but fun. Worth is of course subjective so if money is tight or you'll be financing a large chunk just to get the Performance then you'd be plenty happy with at least the 85 kWh. Haven't driven the 60 kWh but I'm sure it is more than adequate from what owners of the car have posted. I've driven the standard 85 kWh as well and it is plenty fast. You'll still really enjoy it so I wouldn't feel like you were missing out on the Performance. Now if you just have to have the performance then that's a different story. It is a blast so if that's what you want, go for it.
     
  13. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    By the way, I agree the 60kWh is probably the sweet spot as far as value goes - it's more efficient too (almost 200 pounds lighter) that makes the range not as far off as you might think. But I would get supercharger for sure.
     
  14. igor

    igor Member

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    I'm in the same boat as you Alpha. I have an S5 so I like the speed. Really dont try and smoke the other cars, but It is nice. Did you test drive the 65KW?
     
  15. Francis Lau

    Francis Lau P-1456

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    I have my non-performance 85kWh for 2 months now and prior to that, I have test driven the perf MS couple of times. For reference, I have an Audi A4 and have driven the Audi A7 and Porsche Panemera but have never driven super high end cars like Ferrari's.

    Here is my opinion and recommendation.

    If you need to think about the money (which I did) and you are fine spending in the 80-90K range. However, you would like to have the perf speed but cringe on spending 90-105K, don't!

    I drive my non-perf 85kWh everyday and have taken several road trips, the speed and acceleration is very fast. It feels faster than the A7 and Porsche - especially when you can have the same acceleration from 0 to 60 and 60 to 90 :)

    And with an EV, the tradeoff is the range so that is where you should avoid skimping on. 270 rated range is not reality due to cold weather and elevations. So unless you will never have road trips greater than 150 miles, you should go with the 85kWh.

    So my recommendation is 85kWh non-perf if money is a consideration and you will have road trips. Also, consider that I have taken more road trips than ever because the MS is so much cheaper and more fun to drive!
     
  16. bosgig

    bosgig Member

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    Personally I got the P85 even though I didn't really need it, and I never really considered the 60kWh because I wanted maximum range flexibility. There's a lengthy thread on this here:
    Performance vs. Non-Performance an extra $10K
     
  17. Alpha

    Alpha Member

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    As someone said on that thread:

    "If you can afford the performance - get it. Doesn't seem complicated to me :wink:"

    That seems about right....
     
  18. napabill

    napabill Active Member

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    Or my mantra, if a little's good, more's better.:biggrin:
     
  19. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    Yes, do it.
     
  20. jd3

    jd3 Member

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    You've probably gotten more feedback than you ever wanted; but, as you can tell by those who have their Model S, we love to talk about them.

    So,

    I have a Sig Perf and have to admit that the performance is a DRUG! And, not a bad one, it is a reassurance that I will never have to worry about Merging in traffic or accelerator response! It is the aspect of the car that really puts the TESLA GRIN on peoples faces when you give them a ride! It is the absolute FUN part of the Model S!

    On the other hand, the bigger battery is the VALUE part of the Model S! That is...it eliminates the Range Anxiety for everyone you talk to; it will clearly give you better resale value because it is true VALUE. Regardless of the motor performance, you will run into situations where having the bigger battery reduces you anxiety or enables you do go somewhere that you might not otherwise be able to do! The impact of weather, vertical travel, AC/Heater usage, etc. are all mitigated by having the bigger battery.

    I know you said you wouldn't expect to ever use the SuperChargers; but, I would guarantee that eventually you will or whomever gets the car after you will! Since Use of the SuperCharger is FREE for LIFE of the vehicle, ability to use that service will clearly add resale value...

    So, as much as you would truly enjoy the Performance (it actually makes me smile almost every day); the bigger battery has to come first.

    AFAIK,

    Good luck and congrats on joining the Tesla Family (soon).

    jd3
     

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