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2virgule5
Member
With M3 probably there in 3 years and plenty of S and X getting on the road (possibly more than 100.000 in the US only by then) there will be a lot of offer (even if they belong to different class)...
At the same time electric will get out of its niche and all the fears will be gone for the general public, hopefully enlarging the market a lot.
And so unless a big reliability issue arise, I'm confident it will keep its appeal.
At the same time electric will get out of its niche and all the fears will be gone for the general public, hopefully enlarging the market a lot.
And so unless a big reliability issue arise, I'm confident it will keep its appeal.
does the value of the MB c class have any affect on the S class? did the porsche cayanne lose value because of the macan? one class of car shouldn't really have much affect on another. many people will like the 3 because of the price while others will want the S because of the larger size, both body and battery.
the price point of the S scared away many people who couldn't afford a $100k car but now will be able to afford a 3. I think the more the merrier
the price point of the S scared away many people who couldn't afford a $100k car but now will be able to afford a 3. I think the more the merrier
eye.surgeon
Active Member
No doubt there will be a big battery option for the M3 that meets or exceeds a 90--I wouldn't count on range tipping in the favor of a used MS.
if the car being "elite" makes you feel better, good for you however I look at it as the s being the top of the line, maybe the x people would beg to differ.for better or worse the 3 crowd is in "economy" modelInteresting Facts.So we Model S owners will be in Elite Class.
I'm extremely worried as well since the base model of the M3 will do sub 6 second 0-60 (like the base MS) and everything else seems pretty much the same. It looks like 80% MS sold for 30% of the MS cost. Range is similar too. So I think it's more like C63 AMG vs E63 AMG... Just that C63 AMG is a third the price.
I don't think the release of the M3 will have any impact on the resale value of the car I purchased 9 months ago. But I don't really care, as I didn't buy the car to sell it. Will a new M3 have some elements and features that are better than my current MS? I hope so! And I've got my reservation in, just in case there are some must have features in the M3. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the ride.
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
I spent a S--t load on my car and I walked into it knowing that I would see only a tiny fraction back when I sell the her, if I ever do. She's exotic, her tech changes about every three months, as does the entire line, and she will soon have a lower cost competitor that may very well option out at a MS level. A formula for devaluation. Cya later 100+++! But..I'm OK with it
So I am simply going to enjoy this to its fullest every moment I look at her, driver her and baby her.
So I am simply going to enjoy this to its fullest every moment I look at her, driver her and baby her.
I do think the Model 3 will significantly impact the resale value of the Model S when it releases, but Model S owners were aware of Tesla developing a $35,000 car. If I were a Model S owner I would sell sometime between now and Tesla going into full-swing 3 production unless I planned on keeping the car long-term.
I now when my lease is up, I'm going to look VERY HARD at the 3.
It appears to have similar passenger seating space as the S and it may ultimately may have better range than an S for tens of thousands less. I'm just not liking the "dash" (or lack of), or the nose... if Tesla could get a separate designer for the nose of their car's, they'd sell even more vehicles.
Another thing to consider is, in 3 years, Porsche and BMW will likely have competing models.
And the Porsche looks pretty bada$$, IMO.
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It appears to have similar passenger seating space as the S and it may ultimately may have better range than an S for tens of thousands less. I'm just not liking the "dash" (or lack of), or the nose... if Tesla could get a separate designer for the nose of their car's, they'd sell even more vehicles.
Another thing to consider is, in 3 years, Porsche and BMW will likely have competing models.
And the Porsche looks pretty bada$$, IMO.
Chrisizzle
Member
Interesting Facts.
So buying a car that cost as much as most houses didn't make you feel elite. Knowing it won't depreciate like a rock does?
The model S is a significantly better looking and larger car. It's kind of asking how will a great new 3 series impact the price of the 7 series. I would actually worry more about how an updated Model S will have. That will more impact the resale of current Model S's.
But since there are only 3 models so far, there will be impact. I think in the short term, all else constant, before Model 3 actually comes out, it may positively impact Model S resale, since more people are wanting EVs and given current reservations, many may not be able to get a Tesla until 2019 or even into the 2020's. After the 3 is out, then the impact will be more negative. People will compare a used S with a new 3.
I actually think all else equal, a used S is better than a new 3. It just looks better inside and out and has better presence.
Another issue people are ignoring is that a Model 3 that can compare with a used 90D for example will be expensive by itself... A 4 second car with 280 mile range, with great leather interior, etc, will cost as much as a well equipped BMW M3... A used 90D will cost less than that when people can ACTUALLY get such a Model 3.
I think there's just a lot of hype of the Model 3 right now... People are somehow believing they ll be able to get a well equipped BMW M3 performance level car for the money of a 340i. Tesla would be stupid to do that. If I were a finance exec or director for Tesla, a car that can compete with BMW M3 will be priced as such. That's what would actually make the company actually profitable.
My current speculation is this:
Base Model 3: 215 miles, 5.9 0-60, 35k start, all other versions will be dual motor
Mid version: 240-280 (these may be divided into two models, diff battery, same engines), somewhere below 5 secs (say 4.7), 40-50k starting; assuming the higher range version, probably well equipped at 55-60k, similar to a well equipped BMW 340i Msport or MB C43
Performance version: the same battery as the largest one above, with more powerful motors, 4 secs, starting at 60-65k, maxes out, potentially with a ludicrous like upgrade, at around 80-85k, similar to BMW M3 or MB C63
But since there are only 3 models so far, there will be impact. I think in the short term, all else constant, before Model 3 actually comes out, it may positively impact Model S resale, since more people are wanting EVs and given current reservations, many may not be able to get a Tesla until 2019 or even into the 2020's. After the 3 is out, then the impact will be more negative. People will compare a used S with a new 3.
I actually think all else equal, a used S is better than a new 3. It just looks better inside and out and has better presence.
Another issue people are ignoring is that a Model 3 that can compare with a used 90D for example will be expensive by itself... A 4 second car with 280 mile range, with great leather interior, etc, will cost as much as a well equipped BMW M3... A used 90D will cost less than that when people can ACTUALLY get such a Model 3.
I think there's just a lot of hype of the Model 3 right now... People are somehow believing they ll be able to get a well equipped BMW M3 performance level car for the money of a 340i. Tesla would be stupid to do that. If I were a finance exec or director for Tesla, a car that can compete with BMW M3 will be priced as such. That's what would actually make the company actually profitable.
My current speculation is this:
Base Model 3: 215 miles, 5.9 0-60, 35k start, all other versions will be dual motor
Mid version: 240-280 (these may be divided into two models, diff battery, same engines), somewhere below 5 secs (say 4.7), 40-50k starting; assuming the higher range version, probably well equipped at 55-60k, similar to a well equipped BMW 340i Msport or MB C43
Performance version: the same battery as the largest one above, with more powerful motors, 4 secs, starting at 60-65k, maxes out, potentially with a ludicrous like upgrade, at around 80-85k, similar to BMW M3 or MB C63
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Bet TSLA
Active Member
The Model 3 story will have an effect on Model S resale prices starting now. It puts a floor under the price. Everybody who put in an order will be thinking "What can I do to get my 3 sooner? How much extra will I want to spend on cool options?" And then they'll see that for $10K or so more than they would be spending on the 3 somewhere down the line, they can get a CPO S today. And in Colorado they can even get a $6K rebate. So the cheaper CPO S cars will get picked off by impatient 3 reservation holders.
And the funny thing is that they won't even cancel their Model 3 reservations. It's magical!
Bet TSLA
Active Member
And you would be quickly fired. Tesla's mission is to accelerate the adoption of sustainable transport. Maximizing profit is not even a secondary goal; it is relevant only to the extent it helps achieve the mission. Generating reasonable profit helps, but I don't think you'll ever see Tesla doing things that jeopardize the mission.
That means doing things like offering up the supercharger network, and making its patents available to competitors. At some point I'm sure you'll see them giving away more IP in order to flip existing auto companies over to building real EVs, thereby creating real competition for themselves. They want to do this as rapidly as possible, not as profitably as possible.
One huge benefit is that the detractors and naysayers will never understand or believe this. So they'll always be getting it wrong when trying to predict what Tesla will do next. Tesla will be impervious to their machinations, and they'll get crushed and never know why.
UberEV1
Member
Effect of Model 3 on Model S (and X) values will partly be a function of Tesla's production plan. If they opt to allocate more of the factory output to Model 3 (e.g. to accelerate mass adoption of EV), then Model S & X may hold their value longer based simply on limited supply. Of course Tesla could build another factory, but that would take additional time and resources.
Jbailey
Member
I think it will either not effect or help. Tesla now has an inexpensive electric car in the workings and there may be a "Y" or economy crossover in the works so the X wont be the only choice for those who want an SUV. That was always the plan.
I believe the model S, X and upcoming roadster will become very expensive elite cars for those who can afford it. They don't have to be better in any practical sense..they just have to be relatively rare, priced high, and maybe a little larger.. Tesla will not sell a lot of them, but those who can afford them and want a high status car will buy them. Right or wrong, many people will pay for exclusivity.
I think the model 3 will have an inexpensive base price with expensive upgrades. Tesla needs to have some profit and I doubt there will be much profit in the base model 3. It will be easy to get sucked into the upgrades which I think will have disproportionately increased pricing. This way, electric cars will take over due to the volume of base model 3's meeting that goal but the upgrades will sustain Tesla financially. I think as it gets into the model s range in terms of performance and battery capacity, it will probably be around 20K less than its model S big brother. I think model S prices will continue to increase and will be more of a larger/ status car.
In a few years, there will be model 3's everywhere. There will be an occasional model S or X and they will continue to be the "wow, look there goes a model s or X" People who can afford it will pay for status or pay a high premium for the best, even if the best is only moderately better.
People who want an electric car will now have a cheaper choice and they will be everywhere... but if you want the status car you will have to shell out for the Model S, X or the upcoming roadster. These will be expensive cars and fewer will be made, with the model S being significantly more than it is now... but the 1%'ers will pay the premium. In a few years, I think the model S will be a 130-150K base car and those who have a used model S will have a very exclusive car with great resale value.
I love my model S, and am very glad I bought it. It is a joy to drive...almost 30K miles in less than a year. I would buy it again in a second. I have three model 3's reserved for my kids. They probably wont be able to afford a model s anytime soon but I am glad that they have a lower priced choice so they can experience some of the joy and well being that I am experiencing.
I believe the model S, X and upcoming roadster will become very expensive elite cars for those who can afford it. They don't have to be better in any practical sense..they just have to be relatively rare, priced high, and maybe a little larger.. Tesla will not sell a lot of them, but those who can afford them and want a high status car will buy them. Right or wrong, many people will pay for exclusivity.
I think the model 3 will have an inexpensive base price with expensive upgrades. Tesla needs to have some profit and I doubt there will be much profit in the base model 3. It will be easy to get sucked into the upgrades which I think will have disproportionately increased pricing. This way, electric cars will take over due to the volume of base model 3's meeting that goal but the upgrades will sustain Tesla financially. I think as it gets into the model s range in terms of performance and battery capacity, it will probably be around 20K less than its model S big brother. I think model S prices will continue to increase and will be more of a larger/ status car.
In a few years, there will be model 3's everywhere. There will be an occasional model S or X and they will continue to be the "wow, look there goes a model s or X" People who can afford it will pay for status or pay a high premium for the best, even if the best is only moderately better.
People who want an electric car will now have a cheaper choice and they will be everywhere... but if you want the status car you will have to shell out for the Model S, X or the upcoming roadster. These will be expensive cars and fewer will be made, with the model S being significantly more than it is now... but the 1%'ers will pay the premium. In a few years, I think the model S will be a 130-150K base car and those who have a used model S will have a very exclusive car with great resale value.
I love my model S, and am very glad I bought it. It is a joy to drive...almost 30K miles in less than a year. I would buy it again in a second. I have three model 3's reserved for my kids. They probably wont be able to afford a model s anytime soon but I am glad that they have a lower priced choice so they can experience some of the joy and well being that I am experiencing.
roblab
Active Member
And no doubt there will be battery options for the S and X that will exceed the 90. I'm counting on it! The Model S will always be the top of the line FlagShip of the Tesla Fleet, with the most range, power, technology, best looks, greatest safety, etc. etc. Good thing I own one! If you equip a Model 3 out to run like an S, you'll still have a Model 3, but you'll pay more than a used S.
