Rescuers can't open doors of burning Model S

[Tam]

..."But, they were alive"....

I remember seeing a video somewhere that the Good Samaritans were able to pull Walter Huang out of his front seat alive before the fire even started because the whole front of the car was gone. They said he looked disoriented but they didn't see any injuries externally. He later died in the hospital.

Same with Princess Diana: She was alive after the crash but died in the hospital...

With high-speed collisions, internal injuries can also kill and not just the fire.

 

[CSFTN]

perhaps not crazy. how about considering he had a medical emergency. but yes, a gas car might be just as dangerous.

Might be? might be? gasoline explodes, batteries at worst burn. Accident in gas car FAR more dangerous than battery. The public fear is because gas cars explode and then burn out relatively quickly. Batteries simmer for hours, so there is more to watch.

 

[Tam]

...Batteries simmer for hours, so there is more to watch.

I don't see how the US fire departments still struggle with lithium fire when others have figured it out: Just dump the whole car into a pool of water:

The Dutch do it:

Belgium does it:

Privacy settings

There! You can let all the shorts and heat die down in the water but in the meantime, our US firepeople still do the conventional way by watching the damaged battery re-ignites then shower water on it over and over again:

 

[roblab]

perhaps not crazy. how about considering he had a medical emergency. but yes, a gas car might be just as dangerous.

Even in a medical emergency one needs to drive within the limits of traction and other safety parameters. I would guess he was speeding. And when people drive stupidly, they die. Simple physics. Of course, some may feel sorry for the guy, but one can't blame Tesla for all the stupidity in the country.

Just think! Maybe next year the new Teslas will come with a glass canopy that blows off straight up, like the jet fighters. Then with the rocket seats and parachutes, no one will ever die again. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Glad he was helping veterans, sounds like a real loss to the community. Hopefully he wasn't using his own ketamine therapy while driving......

On a lighter note

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[Joshker]

All First responders carry a device that will break the glass. In fact it's a good thing to keep in your glove box just in case you get trapped. Many options but heres one

https://www.amazon.com/Zak-Tool-LEP...ywords=glass+punch+tool&qid=1572025715&sr=8-6

As a FF/Paramedic in my opinion these escape devices are a complete waste of money. First, after one or more impacts the device is not going to be where you would expect it to be. Second, anybody that involved in an accident is going to be less than calm resulting in the lack of ability to recall and or find such device.

Sounds like you were at the accident site and know what happened.

First responders have a lot of tools, but when there is a lithium battery fire, they have to look after their own safety first. They are not going to use jaws of life or any other tools if they feel threatened.

The Model S door handle is cool, but from a safety and reliability standpoint, it doesn't really make sense on a mass-market car. Glad they went with mechanical handles for the Model 3.

I'd much rather fight an EV fire than a ICE fuel fire, EV's do not blow up and worst case scenario a 100D has the equivalent of 3 gallons of fuel potential given 33.7kw per gallon of gas. Just because the car is on fire it doesn't mean the battery is involved. If a car is on fire we will perform fire attack, we are not there for us we are there for you. It makes no sense to perform extrication on a burning vehicle.

It takes about 3 seconds for me to reach into my pocket and grab a tool to take the window. The front interior handles are mechanical on all Teslas. The interior handle has a mechanical connection (federally mandated). The outside handles are all electronic.

Absolutely not a coincidence but strategically planned IMO.

100% agree but didn't make a difference this week!

I don't see how the US fire departments still struggle with lithium fire when others have figured it out: Just dump the whole car into a pool of water:

There! You can let all the shorts and heat die down in the water but in the meantime, our US firepeople still do the conventional way by watching the damaged battery re-ignites then shower water on it over and over again:

This isn't the generally accepted way handle EV fires and I guarantee the American fire service will not adopt this method. I suggest you read the real story behind that BMW. This was not initially a battery fire to start and once submerged it became one and then took something like 7 days to fully extinguish as they dropped it in the water repeatedly. Batteries don't like water, submerging them along with other particles in the water finds the way into the battery pack and internally shorts the batteries. Also EV battery water runoff isn't a hazardous material. A burning car dropped into 5000 gallons of water becomes 5000 gallons of hazardous material (look at the water in the pictures). We are trained to cool the battery packs to prevent spread of propagation to other cells/modules.

At the end of the day it comes down to training and I'm very thankful that Tesla works with First responders to make sure we are prepared for that day.

 

[iRia]

The Model S door handle is cool, but from a safety and reliability standpoint, it doesn't really make sense on a mass-market car. Glad they went with mechanical handles for the Model 3.

Model 3 doesn’t have mechanical exterior door handles. They activate a micro switch just like the S does.

The door handle being extended on the s doesn’t guarantee that it will open, nor does the 3’s door guarantee to open.

The S will unlock all doors and extend the handles if airbags deploy. With extremely high speed this probably won’t happen if some of the electrical systems fail. Same is true of my Toyota Sienna which locks the doors if I drive faster than 12mph. It won’t open from the outside either unless it becomes unlocked.

 

[boaterva]

Maybe I missed it but same as on the Reddit thread, the point about the handles seems to be WTF. Any EMT/extricator will have a knife that is made to cut jammed seat belts and a punch end to break windows. I even have one in the car for emergencies (mine or others). Any car door may jam mechanically in a crash.

Also, this is how all the quarter windows were broken so easily in the Bay Area, it’s surmised: some sort of punch tool.

 

[dgatwood]

As a FF/Paramedic in my opinion these escape devices are a complete waste of money. First, after one or more impacts the device is not going to be where you would expect it to be. Second, anybody that involved in an accident is going to be less than calm resulting in the lack of ability to recall and or find such device.

They might or might not still be where you put them, but if you put one in the door pocket and it isn't there, then odds are, neither is the door, so you probably don't need it anyway.

Either way, the main reason to have one of these is not so you can get yourself out, but rather so that if you come upon a wreck, you can get someone else out.

 

[Joshker]

They might or might not still be where you put them, but if you put one in the door pocket and it isn't there, then odds are, neither is the door, so you probably don't need it anyway.

Either way, the main reason to have one of these is not so you can get yourself out, but rather so that if you come upon a wreck, you can get someone else out.

Most don't comprehend what will happen to loose items in the car after an accident. Unless it's in the glovebox or a locked compartment, it's likely not going to be there after most accidents or god forbid a rollover. Accidents are violent...

You are correct, having one is probably your best bet when helping someone else. However, unfortunately that's not how these devices are marketed and not why 100% of people buy them. It provides a false sense of security. People think you can use ordinary objects to break windows, this is not the case and on many occasions I've baseball swung the piked end of a halligan on a window without breaking it. Plenty of fail videos on YouTube showing how difficult it can be to break glass without the right tool.

 

[drklain]

Agreed. Best I've seen is in Europe where many of those multi-use tools (seatbelt cutter, door window punch, glass hammer,etc.) are in a braket at lower left of the driver's feet. It is in a bracket with a safety wire holding it in place, but immediately accessible if you need to get to it and minimal risk of it becoming a flying object. It's not a perfect solution, but a decent one for most cars. I wish something similar was mandated in the US (along with a reflective vest and a fire extinguisher as the EU requires). Of course all those things add COST and Congress (and the automotive lobby) are against ANYTHING that adds cost to a vehicle...

 

[quickstrike12]

I don’t disagree with the 2 previous commenters but in this instance it’s a bit sad nobody “tried”. I am not anyone special but I can assure you I would have broken that window for a dying man if at all humanely possible. Or broke myself trying.

somebody should have tried. Sad.

 

[Ariscus]

This story makes zero sense to me. I’d love to hear what the attorney who told people to flee to Afghanistan has to say about this lawsuit. How is what happened with this Tesla different than literally ANY OTHER CAR that gets in a wreck with it’s doors locked?

Another just quick point to the poster or posters who keep saying “every first responder carries a window punch”. Many do, but I can 100% guarantee you that all first responders do not carry them. I’ve been in the fire/end world for 18 years and know many firefighters who don’t carry them. Most ambulance personnel I’ve worked with in that time don’t, nor do most police officers I’ve worked with. Cops pretty much all have a baton or large flashlight that can easily take a window, every fire engine has a plethora of tools that can take a window, ambulance folk typically(in my part of the country anyways) aren’t first on scene so it’s not seen as a total necessity to them.

But again, any car with a locked door would have had the same issue. This is just an attorney taking advantage of a grieving family. I wish we’d sanction and or disbar more of these types of attorneys.

 

[Ludalicious]

First of all there are thousands of vehicles on the road that have crashed and caught fire with the doors being locked. I had a friend on high school that burned alive due to the doors being locked and bystanders claiming they were not able to get the doors open. Break a window already for F* sakes. Especially if the officers were one of the first onsite. I don't see any explanation as to the cause of the accident either.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Talk to any firefighter/cop or veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan, this isn't unusual..... as you can see in the accident below, it wouldn't have mattered... the car was folded around the guy, didn't matter if the locks worked or not.

Warning this has audio, turn it off...he stops screaming about 6:30 minutes in.... you can tell these poor guys were trying to help, but the heat was too much and the crappy fire extinguishers didn't help either...

 

[Ludalicious]

Talk to any firefighter/cop or veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan, this isn't unusual..... as you can see in the accident below, it wouldn't have mattered... the car was folded around the guy, didn't matter if the locks worked or not.

Warning this has audio, turn it off...he stops screaming about 6:30 minutes in.... you can tell these poor guys were trying to help, but the heat was too much and the crappy fire extinguishers didn't help either...

Yikes

Let's be clear though. Tesla's door handles are an absolute liability. Any life safety system should always fail open. It's definitely a design flaw and really makes you shake your head when you actually see something like this.

The door handles should be spring loaded and fail open when power is lost.

Would it of made a difference, maybe not because allot of vehicles doors get compromised and do not open regardless.

 

[Ariscus]

Yikes

Let's be clear though. Tesla's door handles are an absolute liability. Any life safety system should always fail open. It's definitely a design flaw and really makes you shake your head when you actually see something like this.

The door handles should be spring loaded and fail open when power is lost.

Would it of made a difference, maybe not because allot of vehicles doors get compromised and do not open regardless.

How are they a liability? If you crashed say a Ford F-150 and the doors were locked, they would default open during the crash. They would remain locked. As would any other car door. When FD personnel force open doors of crashed cars we don’t force through the door handle. Ever. We force through the seams of the doors at the A post and B post and C post of the rear door needs opened. So again, I’d love to hear how the design of a flush door handle is any more of a liability than a locked door.

 

[Ariscus]

I don’t know how to edit posts, perhaps I don’t have access to that feature yet. Should read “would they default open?” In regards to locked doors on any other vehicle.

 

[Ludalicious]

How are they a liability? If you crashed say a Ford F-150 and the doors were locked, they would default open during the crash. They would remain locked. As would any other car door. When FD personnel force open doors of crashed cars we don’t force through the door handle. Ever. We force through the seams of the doors at the A post and B post and C post of the rear door needs opened. So again, I’d love to hear how the design of a flush door handle is any more of a liability than a locked door.

I do not agree with this design either. Any time a system looses power it should always fail open. I am sure this will eventually become mandatory for vehicle manufacturers

 

[Ariscus]

I do not agree with this design either. Any time a system looses power it should always fail open. I am sure this will eventually become mandatory for vehicle manufacturers

Okay, so you’re saying every vehicle made in the last 100+ years(since the invention of the locking door) is a liability then, correct?