TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Research claims battery-electric cars are greener than expected

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by mpt, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,629
    Location:
    Warren, New Jersey, United States
    Source IET

    http://kn.theiet.org/news/aug10/e-car-lca.cfm

     
  2. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    A good article...nice to see some current comparative information!

    I guesss the Pertol-Heads know where they can stick their "long-tailpipe" arguments...:tongue::biggrin::wink:
     
  3. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,572
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
  4. kgb

    kgb Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    Houston, TX
  5. Brent

    Brent Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Aren't the reports making the same claim? That is, they both seem to be saying that the greeness of electric cars depends largely on how the electricity is generated, and that batteries don't factor much into the equation.
     
  6. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,629
    Location:
    Warren, New Jersey, United States
    Brent, I followed the link to the original article at http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es903729a

    So, yes, I think they're in agreement.

    As far as I can tell the research was carried out on a petrol gasoline car rather than Diesel so I think, all bets are off wrt the diesel headline.
     
  7. eledille

    eledille TMS 85 owner :)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    #7 eledille, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    Yes, they are. The numbers are peculiarly similar.

    The Register chooses to read the report as negative for electric cars, while it is in fact very positive.

    For a diesel car to have any chance of beating an electric, it will have to be small, underpowered, and never be even close to a traffic jam. No cold starts, please. Also, the electric car must get its power from "european mix", which includes a lot of coal.

    They also assume that heating/cooling/electronic devices consume 17% of the battery capacity, a whopping 2.9kWh/100km. Electronic devices can safely be ignored, so they assume resistive heating. Switching to a heat pump would immediately blow the ICE away.
     
  8. eledille

    eledille TMS 85 owner :)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    #8 eledille, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    They state that to achieve break-even with an electric car charged with european power mix, an ICE would need to consume 3.9 liters of fuel of unspecified type per 100km according to one life cycle impact assessment method (CED), or 2.6 liters according to another (EI99 H/A). Then they point out that consumption in this range is achieved by some small diesel cars. What they don't mention is that real-life fuel consumption will always be higher than this unless you live in the countryside and always use an engine block heater in the winter.
     
  9. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,039
    #9 stopcrazypp, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    That's not the main problem. The main problem is the diesel fans always like to use their MOST efficient diesel cars to compare to the baseline average of different technologies. They do the same to hybrids. They always bring up a car like the Polo to compare to the Prius, when the Prius is both significantly larger and more powerful. It isn't a fair comparison unless they compare similar cars.
     

Share This Page