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Reserved model 3, need some help

Discussion in 'Canada' started by squadz, May 6, 2018.

  1. squadz

    squadz New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2018
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    Concord
    I realize I have a lot of time until delivery, but still curious about a few things. For reference, I've decided on the SR model (LR isn't needed).

    I won't have access to charging at home (condo), and it's too expensive to put it in. I'll have to rely on charging stations. My issue is I'm trying to work out the costs. From what I read, the SR is going to be 220 miles range (354 km).

    My commute is 39 km roundtrip, which means I'll have more than enough for a week of commuting. My plan is to charge on the weekends, here's my two options:

    4.4km to a supercharging station
    2.0km to an ikea

    This is where I need help. Ikea, I believe, is free? but they have the slower charging, if I understand correctly. Does anyone know how long it would take from 0 to full at ikea? (I'm also curious if I can even use this, as I wouldn't be shopping there, I'd just be leaving it and getting it later unless it's a quick charge)

    The Tesla supercharging station is a better further, but it has a cost. This is where I'm a bit confused. I'm in Ontario, and it says $0.20 up to 60 kw, $0.40 afterwards. How can I calculate this if I assume an empty battery again? (does the Kw refer to battery size?)

    I'm just trying to find actual charging costs, to use as a comparison to what I'm currently paying in gas. Anyone that can help?
     
  2. rdturner0

    rdturner0 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    kW refers to rate of charge (kWh is the amount of power stored or available for use). The charger cannot always deliver full rate of charge (sharing with other cars, etc.), so may charge at different rates (hence the two rates for Ontario superchargers - Tesla is trying to be "fair" within the constraints for billing for charging). Unfortunately, we have a strange way in Canada/Ontario of applying charging billing (by time) instead of by power used -- imagine if you had to fill your gas tank by how long it took, not how much gas you put in. (Note that I think this is legislative, not Tesla's choice. Tesla clearly states they prefer to charge by kWh, but it seems many places have legislation that forces them to charge by the minute of use).

    A few items for your consideration:
    • It is my understanding that it's not advisable to charge the battery to 100% regularly as it shortens the lifetime of the battery cells. By default the car will charge to 80% unless told otherwise.
    • In the winter, your range will be reduced by 5-20% depending on various factors.
    • You won't have much margin for unexpected trips on a Thursday or Friday with your plan, especially in the winter. You might need to look at a mid-week charging option.
    A standard J1772 connector (as found on the free chargers at IKEA) will typically have a maximum charge current of 32A (at 240V) (~7.5 kW). You can get location specific charging information from various sources like ChargePoint, PlugShare, etc. As such, fully charging an SR Model 3 would take at least 8.5 hours, but more likely closer to 10-12. (Simple maths: 60 kWh battery, 90% storage efficiency (estimate), 7.5 kWh maximum charge rate: 60 kWh/ (7.5 kW * 0.9) = ~8.8 hours (factoring in reduced charge rates for top off, conditions, etc, add 25-50% more time).

    If I remember correctly, the Superchargers in most locations, but not all, can charge at a maximum rate of 140kW (so I think an SR Model 3 would take at least 30-40 minutes to charge fully if it's able to absorb the power at a high rate (various conditions limit charge rate) -- note that the charge rate must slow down as it "tops off" the battery to avoid the cells exploding, etc.). I would expect a typical full charge to take 60 minutes, probably longer. However, I didn't go do the maths, or look at the charge curves, nor do I have the data from existing vehicles (as I don't own one yet), or from a SR Model 3 (as they don't exist yet). Information provided is based on reading stuff over the past few years, and some quick in my head calculations.

    Charging electric vehicles today really requires you to have regular extended-time parking location (home or work) where you can charge the vehicle for a number of hours (3+). Without a radical change in both battery technology and power distribution infrastructure, other options won't really exist. It unfortunate, but it's the current "reality".
     
    • Informative x 2
  3. Osteolog

    Osteolog Member

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    Apr 19, 2018
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    Location:
    Toronto
    Looks like most of the stuff I was about to type was already covered. To elaborate a bit on a few points, I'll likely be charging to 80% and keeping it above about 30% to ensure optimal battery health (and to provide a range buffer at the low end). Running out of power is much more annoying than running out of fuel in a gas car but maybe similar to diesels. As such, I don't want to risk running it down too low. Even if you habitually charged to 90%, that's about 319 km of ideal range if you ran it to 0%. If you're ok with running down to 20%, that gives you about 250 km of range to play with. If you drive relatively conservatively, that should cover your 200 km of weekly commuting in the summer, but doesn't leave much leftover for errands or anything else. In the winter, you'll almost certainly have to either widen your charge/discharge range or charge mid-week (or both). Charging costs will be cheaper than gas, but it's going to be an inconvenience if you don't have access to charging at home or work.

    I'd look into the cost to get charging setup at home before you write it off entirely. Even a standard 120v outlet should manage about 5 km of range per hour of charging and would be enough to cover your commuting requirements and keep things warm in the winter.
     
  4. Whisky

    Whisky Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    You're in a similar situation to what I've been living the last year with a Model X75D (similar range). I live downtown Toronto, and charging consistently is a challenge. Ikea is great! But there will be times you'll get there, and the charger will be used. It's usually a Volt, and with all the M3 coming into pay, I bet you'll see more of those as well. Yes, it's free, but most locations only have a few Level 3 chargers and the Level 2 is going to be too slow for a large battery pack (unless you plan to stay for hours and hours).

    The PlugShare app is your friend! You'll get a number of good charging locations, and you'll find the one that works best for you. I used to have one around where I lived, but it's ICEd half the time, and goes through periods of being down. Tesla is the only real consistent place to get a charge (but even those do go down). In my situation, I managed to keep the battery charged here and there, and drove to the Supercharger once or twice a month to get a good quick charge. I do not drive as consistently as you do, though, so my guess the Supercharger is going to be your best bet.

    At my new condo, they're working with the EV owners to build charging infrastructure, which is great! I've also found a few parking spots in the public parking lot that has a regular 120v plug. I'll get about 5km of range in an hour, or about 1%, which actually is pretty descent so long as you plug in each day.

    The winter is going to suck. The Model X is likely going to take a bigger hit in range then the M3, but in the winter time charging is slower, the car uses more power, and charging stations fill-up quick (especially around the holidays). This winter should be better, there's a lot more charging infrastructure out there. You'll have time to build good habits that work for you.

    Even with all this, never regretted my purchase. It's terrific! 380km is all the range you really need for 99% of the driving. Some of this, though, you can't really plan ahead. It's best to just experience it and go with that.

    I did a quick video of charging in Toronto:

     
    • Informative x 1
  5. squadz

    squadz New Member

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    May 6, 2018
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    Thank you all, that gives me a lot to consider.

    Thanks to your posts, I realized I could get 8 hours of charging at my work considering I park right in front and can use their outside 110v volt. That should give me my daily commute back, or close enough.
     
    • Like x 2
  6. rdturner0

    rdturner0 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
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    221
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yep, that's a reasonable option to carry you through the week as your commute is pretty short. Then you can do a short top up on the weekend with 15-30 minutes at a Supercharger.
     
  7. orangem

    orangem Member

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    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Toronto
    Chademo adapter does not work with model 3 as of today and who knows if tesla will make it work in the future. Ikea is a chademo.
    Also ikea north york level 3 has been out of action for 3 weeks and counting. Dont count on too much with that
     
  8. ZooSean

    ZooSean ZOO

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    775
    Location:
    Markham, Canada
    Buy a house before buying a Model3;);)
     

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