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Resolved - Ecotricity suing Tesla in the UK
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Krugerrand
Meow
And I've no doubt they'll get what they need for Tesla owners, some way, somehow.
They are definitely planning on charging customers in future. This has been clear from day one, and Ecotricity are publicly open about it.
The real problem here is Ecotricity has signed exclusivity contracts with the Motorway Service Areas. These are absolutely prime locations for Supercharging in the context of enabling long range travel.
The Electrical grid runs alongside the motorways and they are mandated by law to be open 24x7 and provide food and restroom facilities. They also have the benefit of being places you don't want to stop at for any longer than needed.
Dale Vince has in this case been very shrewd securing such a deal, and Tesla were playing from a very weak hand at the negotiating table. Elon's complaints about "outrageous demands" may very well be true given the clash of egos, but ultimately what is outrageous given this backdrop.
Of course none of this is helping us UK drivers out. Tesla are scraping around for sites which meet their own 24x7 access, restrooms, and facilities requirements which aren't exhorbitantly expensive to run electrical supply to. They can't just build there own mini-version of a service centre due to legislation and planning restrictions, so at the moment they are choosing to place Superchargers in small car parks near hotels with 24x7 facilities. These so far seem to be supply constrained to 2 bay sites, which will creak under the strain as more cars hit the UK.
There are rollout problems too. Even suitable hotel sites are in fairly short supply, we have seen a definite lacking in certain areas of the country, where MSA's are pretty much the only option, leading to a heavy clustering of SpCs in some regions, and void in others. Tesla have been in talks with supermarket chains, but the big problem with those is they are generally not as easily accessible, and they will end up supporting the penny-pinching owners as the charge time nearly matches a weekly shopping time, so there is no inconvenience to using them.
With Ecotricity the gatekeeper to the locations, it would appear Tesla's fat fingered email, showed Tesla were trying to buy off the lease agreements between Ecotricity and the motorway service operators, probably figuring this would be cheaper than paying Dale the price he demanded for allowing Tesla to share the sites, or trying to upgrade sub-optimal locations infrastructure to support Supercharging.
Now the crux of this particular lawsuit, i.e. breach of NDA, and I suspect specifically access to the key stakeholders at the Motorway Service Operators, may or may not go Tesla's way (I suspect Tesla may lose if pressed to gamble on it). However, I suspect in reality, it is a more long term strategy for Ecotricity to ring fence and protect their lease agreements with the motorway service operators. Given the current legal backdrop, I very much doubt any Motorway Service Operator would now consider breaking a lease agreement with Ecotricity, as it would be a pretty open and shut case.
Further muddying the waters is now UK Government are wanting to get in on the rapid charging scene, and I suspect they will gladly pay Ecotricity's fee for entry, after all it's "Someone else's money"
Not sure about US highways - but in the UK service centres along motorways only occur every 30 miles or so - so if Ecotricity had exclusivity then they controlled the best and ONLY place off of motorways to charge a car... pity mean of Ecotricity to not want to share these locations. But they probably want to back a model where the user pays to charge - not the Tesla "buy the car - the road trip is free"
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Ecotricity definitely intend to start charging.
There are several FullyCharged episodes in which Robert Llewellyn interviews Dale Vince and they discuss it.
The charging was always billed as "free for now" in that they currently have no plans.
However they have never done as Tesla has and stated that charging will always be free.
There are several FullyCharged episodes in which Robert Llewellyn interviews Dale Vince and they discuss it.
The charging was always billed as "free for now" in that they currently have no plans.
However they have never done as Tesla has and stated that charging will always be free.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Tesla reaches settlement with Supercharger rival in the UK
Terms were not disclosed.
http://www.slashgear.com/tesla-reaches-settlement-with-supercharger-rival-in-the-uk-18389430/
Yep. We are getting seven imminent new Superchargers in decent motorway locations and more planned in the future. Looks like Tesla may have chucked money at Ecotricity to help them grow and improve their network which has struggled with DBT units and having to ensure new EVs and technologies work (CCS).
Took too long, but should be a perfect partnership. I guess Ecotricity will supply the electricity to Tesla UK.
Took too long, but should be a perfect partnership. I guess Ecotricity will supply the electricity to Tesla UK.
Krugerrand
Meow
More like two hard headed business guys coming to some sort of mutual arrangement
Both parties have been hurt by this, but arguably Tesla more. I don't think you can underestimate the marketing value of seeing a Tesla stopping at a UK motorway service station settling the fears of prospective buyers. So far all the long distance Tesla drivers have been hidden away in hotel parking lots well out of the sight of the BMW diesels.
On the flip side Ecotricity are just about to get a bit of a bitter pill via reductions in subsidies for onshore wind power generation, and probably are looking for a bit more revenue. I'm also not convinced it's great for their practices to be held up to full public scrutiny.
We will never know how much Tesla paid Ecotricity to gain access to this prime piece of real estate, but it would be naive IMHO to assume it was just Tesla agreeing to buy electricity from Ecotricity. Ecotricity at the end of the day is Dales personal business, it is a "not for dividend" company (whatever that means), it is not a charity neither a "not for profit" organisation. To avoid the nasty tax impacts of extracting outside dividends, it just lends any profit to Dale at interest free loans
Top Labour donor facing 'tax dodge' accusations - Telegraph
Personally I wish that had all gone to court for it to be held up to public scrutiny.
Krugerrand
Meow
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
On principal perhaps, but the lost business for Tesla is probably far more costly than whatever settlement terms they reached with Ecotricity, even if Tesla wins in the end (not to mention the legal fees). Who knows how many years this case would have taken in court, and Tesla can't afford waiting years to install more supercharger stations. This lawsuit was holding everything up given how quickly Tesla installed stations after it was settled.
That battle with Ecotricity will have to be fought by someone else.
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