I just finished reading all 14 pages of this thread, this problem causes me some concern. I am waiting till the 29TH reveal of all the features of the Model X prior to confirming my order of a 70D Model S. I just want to make sure there is no super cool feature the Model X has that will then be available from that time on the Model S also (like a bike rack hitch or something). I have driven an electric vehicle for the past 30+ thousand miles (Ford Focus Electric) with nothing needed other than tire rotation and washer fluid. This problem sounds to me like perhaps it is a lubrication issue. With the super low drag synthetic fluids for gear lubrication being used in all vehicle transmissions and drive axle units in order to achieve more range or mileage. Most manufactures have entire engineering teams dedicated only to "Noise, Vibration, and Harshness issues. Old 90 or 140w gear oil could quiet and smooth out a lot of tolerance issues due to high mileage or high load.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
One thing I did not see clearly delineated in this thread is the difference between motor bearings and transaxle bearings. I believe the discussion about thrust loads and gears applies to the transaxle bearings and the discussion about voltage induced failures would apply to the motor bearings, which, being ceramic, should not happen. My assumption has always been that the noise issues are related to the transaxle bearings.
Yes, from what I've learned it's the diff carrier case bearings that fail and that Tesla has a shim kit for. If one end of the motor bearings are ceramic or they use an insulator bushing (common practice) this will stop the eddy current arcing problem.
timdorr
Model S P90D w/AP3.0
So, my car has developed this milling noise recently (after having a battery contactor failure a few weeks ago, resulting in a battery replacement). It's gotten worse over the previous week and is pretty noticeable at anything 10MPH and up. Should I be worried it's going to break down on me?
In particular, I have a trip of about 200 miles to make in the next couple weeks, before my service appointment. Should I resort to our backup Prius for that trip?
In particular, I have a trip of about 200 miles to make in the next couple weeks, before my service appointment. Should I resort to our backup Prius for that trip?
if the cicada like sound is the only thing that is not right with the car I would think that the chances of that drive unit issue causing a catastrophic failure is quite low.
take your trip but be aware that the more miles you add to the car in the condition the louder the sound might become.
Get the car to a service center, have them record the sound so some engineer at the mother ship can authorize a drive unit replacement.
Elon explained that a few years ago many companies refused to sell them parts, fearing Tesla would soon go bankrupt. Maybe Tesla did not have access to the best, costliest technology.
Forty Creek
Member
My service centre advised that the milling sound I'm experiencing requires a DU replacement but that there are quite a few cars ahead of me waiting for the same thing. Unfortunately, the wait seems to be on the order of 3+ months until they are able to get to my car. In the meantime they say there is 'little chance' that the DU will fail. They indicated that the very long wait is due in part to the local service centre being very small and cramped. They can only work on two cars at a time and must wait for the DU's to be serviced and returned. The sound is very annoying and is indeed getting louder. We too have a long drive planned (to Florida 2600 miles return) and I'm hoping to somehow have the issue fixed before we leave, if only to alleviate the noise.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I was never worried it would fail and leave me stranded, it didn't seem like that kind of problem, but it sure was embarrassing! It became all anyone talked about when they saw they car and that's not what you want or expect with a car like this. In my experience, Tesla will eventually replace your DU but not until it becomes loud enough to turn the heads of bystanders as you drive by
This is where I'm at. People ask "what is that sound?" and I have to explain that it is an "anomaly" that requires fixing. I try to downplay it, but invariably, I get comments like "a car costing this much shouldn't do that" and such. By myself, I usually have the audio cranked up a bit which masks the sound, but when I have passengers, you can really hear it. With the windows down, I can hear it reflecting off curbs, concrete walls and such.
I've probably put at least 10,000 miles on mine since it started.
Possibly, but now they shouldn't have that problem. Even when the new "D" transaxles were designed they wouldn't have had this issue. This transaxle is in the front and rear of my 70D and I've heard plenty of reports of failures in these, both front and rear.
If you get a "reman" drive unit, I could understand this one having the same problem again, but what about the new ones with high revision numbers? How can they still be failing and why isn't Tesla bringing in whatever engineering support they need to fix it? It seems like the cost to let them keep failing again and again is way higher than re-engineering it so the problem gets solved. (By "cost" I mean both direct $ and loss to their future reputation which could be way more harmful!)
Tesla cares very little about it's reputation, and seems to spend more money to "patch" problems instead of getting a proper fix. I'm sure in the end it costs them much more that just fixing the problem would have, both monetarily and in goodwill.
What makes this even sadder, or more pathetic, is that Tesla manufactures the drive units in-house. It has complete control of the process, from design to manufacture. With that kind of control, these issues should have been permanently resolved in manufacturing almost as soon as they occurred. Yet here we are. Tesla's behavior over this issue is no different than its behavior in every other regard when it comes to problems with the car: Make it the owner and service's problem. Tesla is clearly focused on new deliveries, and as a result, they are willing to offload problems onto the ownership base to be handled through the service centers. This is why many service centers are overworked and booked months in advance. This situation has not changed since 2013. Plenty to be concerned about, in my opinion.
Milling Through the Mire - Tesla Model S Drive Unit Woes. - EVTV Motor Verks
Conclusion of this interesting article : "I fear the ultimate solution is a 6 second acceleration rate – which I could live with just fine actually. I believe they will find the answer is a few lines of software code, but the answer will not be very satisfying to those who liked the performance claim on this car."
Conclusion of this interesting article : "I fear the ultimate solution is a 6 second acceleration rate – which I could live with just fine actually. I believe they will find the answer is a few lines of software code, but the answer will not be very satisfying to those who liked the performance claim on this car."
So, if there is truth in this... Are there other ways to get the performance? Direct drive? Multiple gears, but hold back the application of power? (Might cost in the 0-30, but could help in passing power)
timdorr
Model S P90D w/AP3.0
I've got a SC appointment for the 15th (their earliest). They had mentioned the acoustic testing as well. They've already got my battery at the mothership, so they might as well take my drive unit too
OK, good. Given the relative nonchalance of the service technician who did a ride-along with me to check the noise, it seems like I won't be having a complete breakdown any time soon. I had a less-than-great roadside assistance experience when my battery contactor blew, so I'm mainly hoping to avoid that again
That won't work. The much detuned Rav4 EV which uses the same drive unit has the same problems.
Yeah, I don't believe it's occurring because of launches. There have been several members here that have had multiple replacements and drive very calmly. Now, I would imagine once it starts making noise, it may well be that high-peak-power launching will exacerbate the wear.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
For those unfamiliar with Jack, always remember he often speaks utter nonsense, but does so with conviction, and even when faced with contrary evidence will not change his mind. (His most recent video has him simultaneously claiming that Nissan LEAF owners were not seeing actual range loss but simply a gauge error, while citing a study clearly showing range loss, and talking about Nissan replacing packs because of this loss. The mind is boggled.)
