Restrictions on Hong Kong Model S spec

[gubes]

I think Tesla is an easy target. If the car did not have software updates, it would still be there. Most cars have their software (if they even have software) updated when you do a service. So someone at the Transport department needs to come up with these rules to justify their existence.

I think BMW's i-drive system and systems used by Mercedes and Audi are MUCH more distracting as a whole.

 

[nghktom]

according to the reply from TD, Tesla was told about the calendar issue back in 2014. However, when we purchased the vehicle, no warning about this is to be removed. Similar, when i selected tech package (including of auto pilot , summon etc), Tesla has never mentioned to me about the potential issue about these being illegal.

I agree TD (HK gov) needs to step up on their regulation with today's technology, but the fact that (if there is any truth to the respond from TD) Tesla did not heads up the buyers about the illegal element, and yet received payment for these OPTIONS. Tesla has potentially selling goods with a false description. Should we report this to HK Custom ?

 

[ediot]

^^ well, by TD's definitions, radios aren't allowed and they are just selective in enforcing the rules which are archaic at best. My previous Audi had a 7" screen at the centre console, which shows radio channel, volume plus other status e.g. "bluetooth now connected to Ediot's Phone" etc. They should also be banned by TD's definition.

Mark and a few others have written to the ombudsman, which i think is the most appropriate response.

Furthermore, there ARE cars out there with screens that can play TV/ DVD videos etc - whilst that's illegal while the vehicle is driven, they're perfectly fine playing whatever media content when the car is parked. Now these players aren't connected to the car's transmission or drive-train computers in any way, and have NO WAY of knowing if the car is in motion... So the only way to ensure media isn't played whilst driving is.. well, the drivers turning them off.

Can't Tesla at least make an update to make the browser and the calendar ONLY available when the car is in P mode? as a person not in the know with how much crap Tesla HK is dealing with the HK gov, it boggles the mind that they haven't come to something at least similar to this simple compromise.

 

[markwj]

according to the reply from TD, Tesla was told about the calendar issue back in 2014. However, when we purchased the vehicle, no warning about this is to be removed. Similar, when i selected tech package (including of auto pilot , summon etc), Tesla has never mentioned to me about the potential issue about these being illegal.

I agree TD (HK gov) needs to step up on their regulation with today's technology, but the fact that (if there is any truth to the respond from TD) Tesla did not heads up the buyers about the illegal element, and yet received payment for these OPTIONS. Tesla has potentially selling goods with a false description. Should we report this to HK Custom ?

Please don't take much from TD speak. Remember last time they said they hadn't banned autopilot? The truth is that they hadn't approved it, while saying that every feature needs to be approved. That is the same as 'not approved' or banned, in my language, but TD speaks a different version of English. Delaying approval indefinitely is not the same as not approving, according to TD speak.

Now, they say they haven't banned calendar. Sure, they just told Tesla it is illegal and they wouldn't type approve new models with that feature. Tesla can go ahead and continue to install it in cars. Just can't register those cars in Hong Kong.

The problem is that the legislation is so specific. All that is allowed is:

• 
  (a) information about the current state of the vehicle or its equipment;
  (b) the current closed-circuit view of any part of the vehicle or the area surrounding the vehicle;
  (c) information about the current location of the vehicle; or
  (d) any other information which is only for the purpose of navigating the vehicle.

So, Audio, Time, Date, Mobile phone integration, caller ID, contact picture, audio artwork, etc. Just TD doesn't choose to enforce the illegality of some things. Turns a blind eye to some illegal features.

Only solution is for Tesla to become clairvoyant, so that they can know what TD is going to turn a blind eye to and what they are going to enforce.

 

[mattse]

according to the reply from TD, Tesla was told about the calendar issue back in 2014. However, when we purchased the vehicle, no warning about this is to be removed. Similar, when i selected tech package (including of auto pilot , summon etc), Tesla has never mentioned to me about the potential issue about these being illegal.

I agree TD (HK gov) needs to step up on their regulation with today's technology, but the fact that (if there is any truth to the respond from TD) Tesla did not heads up the buyers about the illegal element, and yet received payment for these OPTIONS. Tesla has potentially selling goods with a false description. Should we report this to HK Custom ?

As far as I remember, Tesla said such function will be available, they never mentioned when when I reserved my car. And having lived in HK all my life, I knew it won't be easy for Tesla to do so, that's why I have been patient

However, the problem today is not just about the laws not keeping up with new tech, it's selectively enforcement of the laws against one particular car company (enlighten me with another example if you may), it's time to voice out our opinion instead of waiting

 

[markwj]

However, the problem today is not just about the laws not keeping up with new tech, it's selectively enforcement of the laws against one particular car company (enlighten me with another example if you may), it's time to voice out our opinion instead of waiting

http://www.ombudsman.hk/

 

[stopcrazypp]

according to the reply from TD, Tesla was told about the calendar issue back in 2014.

This is incorrect. The 2014 line was only referring to the generic requirements for a visual display under the given law, not specifically about the calendar. TD only took issue with the calendar in their recent approval application.

Tesla had no way to predict that TD would take issue with the calendar specifically given how that law would exclude many things if taken at face value.

 

[mattse]

http://www.ombudsman.hk/

I am still searching for another "in-car calendar" for my letter to Ombudsman, my search among my friends' cars was so far negative. Anyone who know any car make with "in-car calendar" please let me know so I can include that piece of info as "evidence" of the unfairness against Tesla

 

[markwj]

I was told BYD E6 has a calendar. But not sure if that is in the HK spec car or not.

 

[garethmchau]

I am still searching for another "in-car calendar" for my letter to Ombudsman, my search among my friends' cars was so far negative. Anyone who know any car make with "in-car calendar" please let me know so I can include that piece of info as "evidence" of the unfairness against Tesla

You should report to ICAC too!

 

[FequalsMA]

I am still searching for another "in-car calendar" for my letter to Ombudsman, my search among my friends' cars was so far negative. Anyone who know any car make with "in-car calendar" please let me know so I can include that piece of info as "evidence" of the unfairness against Tesla

A slew of new cars came out this year that are sporting new revised/ overhauled tech which i'll be looking into.
COMAND (S-Class), MMI and Virtual cockpit (TT and Q7), Volvo Sensus (T90), iDrive (7series).

Infiniti InTouch DOES have calendar functionality with Google Calendars but don't know if it's disabled for HK.

 

[bignoodle]

HK Tesla Software Update stupidity strikes again!

Tesla thought that the above message was important enough to push it to us by way of a software update. I appreciate the message, I really do, but did they really need to push a software update to do it? A software update which effectively bricks the car for ~20 minutes, because it has to run through a full reset cycle.

The sum total payload of this update was a message consisting of two sentences.

Is anybody else shaking their heads in disbelief?

 

[FequalsMA]

Is that what the update is about?!

TD must have felt the last message was too passive aggressive and requested it changed.

Dear Tesla legal team,

Please fix this calendar shenanigans so we can forget it ever happened.

 

[garethmchau]

Is that what the update is about?!

TD must have felt the last message was too passive aggressive and requested it changed.

Dear Tesla legal team,

Please fix this calendar shenanigans so we can forget it ever happened.

Yep, Tesla need a stronger legal team to stand up to the muppets at TD.

 

[Lerxt]

Its a bit like kidnapping booksellers. Suck up to your masters....or else.

 

[miimura]

In the US, there's a dealership law and each state interprets the same law differently. Some allows Tesla to sell cars directly without going through an independent markup dealership because it clearly has never entered into a contract with a dealership yet thus, the law is not applicable. Other states read the same law and interpret as a prohibition for Tesla to sell cars directly and then create a new law to make that prohibition clear with not even a shadow of doubt. Tesla has worked with its fan to bring the issue to public awareness and has been successful in some instances such as the reversal of the prohibition of Tesla direct sales into the state of New Jersey (That was not an easy thing to do against a very popular and very powerful Governor and US Presidential hopeful Chris Christie.)

Actually, the US Federal Government has no laws about automobile dealerships. The problem is not different states having different interpretations of the same law, it is different states having completely different laws. IMHO, California has the most sensible law. It is essentially this: An automobile manufacturer may not operate its own sales and service center in competition with independent dealers that it has granted a franchise. There is a minimum distance that any manufacturer owned store must be from other franchised dealerships.

Back to the subject at hand. Since the HK Transport Department made a public statement that Tesla pulled the Calendar App on its own and not under the direction of the TD, then Tesla should restore the full functionality available in other markets with selective disabling when the car is moving. My Toyota system does this - certain functions in the navigation system are unavailable while the car is in motion. It clearly meets the spirit of the law in reducing driver distraction, and Tesla should just force the issue the next time they go through type approval with the Transport Department. Surely if TD denies approval they must give a reason and then they cannot disclaim responsibility.

I think it would be a great turnabout for a Tesla owner's group to formally object to the Transport Department naming at least one vehicle violating this law from each and every manufacturer selling automobiles in HK. Bonus points for listing features in violation for every model currently on sale from every manufacturer. I'm sure that would result in quite a stack of paper.

 

[Tam]

...Since the HK Transport Department made a public statement that Tesla pulled the Calendar App on its own and not under the direction of the TD, then Tesla should restore the full functionality available in other markets with selective disabling when the car is moving...

I am not sure if I understand the idea of "Tesla pulled the Calendar App on its own and not under the direction of the TD."

This is what Hong Kong TD said:

"Hence, the decision made by Tesla this time to remove the calendar app from the new model and Tesla vehicles in use is based on legal requirements, instead of what Tesla told vehicle owners recently that "The calendar app has been removed as the Transport Department determined that the calendar app has no bearing on the drivability of the car".

I understand that as: the removal of Tesla Calendar App is not about "drivability of the car" as Tesla claimed but because of "legal requirements" as demanded by the TD.

Whether the Calendar removal was under the direction of the TD or not, it said:

"In processing an application for type approval of a new Tesla model recently, the TD found that the visual display unit on the vehicle has displayed the calendar functional images. The TD then reminded Tesla that the new model must comply with the above legal requirement, otherwise it would not be able to comply with the requirements for type approval."

It sounds like once Tesla is reminded by the TD, Tesla can either comply on its own or it can be pronounced as non-compliance.

Thus, Tesla's "voluntary" act here is pretty much being forced to comply.

In summary, this is not what Tesla wants or volunteers to destroy one of its features in Hong Kong but it has to do it because it is against its will.

 

[Lerxt]

It's an abysmal effort on behalf of the TD and it will do nothing to alter the impression that they are backward, biased and draconian. The fact that the felt they need to put a press release shows how poor the decision was seen to be.

 

[Tam]

...biased ...

When all over the world, all have agreed to leave the Calendar on Tesla 17" display screen alone and then there's one single case in the whole world who finds that it's against legal requirements, then uniqueness does raise questions.

The same findings should be applicable to AM/FM Radio, Internet Music, USB music player, Blue Tooth Music player on Tesla 17" display screen as well, but yet there's no objection to those things.

This act of Calendar prohibition seems to suggest an ability to pick and choose which features that are in compliance and which are not.

 

[Tam]

...HK Tesla Software Update stupidity strikes again!.../QUOTE]

This shows Tesla does respect the laws of Hong Kong and it does take those directives from TD seriously.