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Retroactive & at-sale full $7500 EV tax credit (Electric Credit Access Ready at Sale [CARS] Act)

alloverx

Member
Mar 20, 2016
883
609
Seattle
Having worked with large electronic networks you will be surprised how standards are "enforced". Obviously some networks are stricter than others. Plus once you get into volume of txns (or vendors) you get all the edge cases.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
Right now we probably could get away with 10 to 20 level 2 chargers at the main locations and maybe 8 to 10 at less frequented places.
Any idea how much that would cost? This Electric CARS Act restores the 30% tax credit for installing EV charging stations up to $30,000 through 2031.
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,504
1,559
Richland, WA
It depends what kind of utilities are out to the sites already. Honestly, probably not all that much (when you think of normal costs like repaving a parking lot or something that the parks service has to do already.)

The issue would be it being on managed land. I suspect that would make the permit process so much more involved and a pain in the butt. Tesla would almost certainly also have to provide standard charging stations if there were to win some agreement with the parks service to install chargers. That might not be such an issue for them right now at a Walmart or mall location, but at a more "desirable" location where they actually expect people will want to travel to and use the chargers, they might not want to cover the extra costs of extra universal chargers, etc.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
I called on both senators and left message for one and email to the other. … I also asked my friends to do the same, call these up since they may want an EV :cool:
Did you get a response from Senator Schumer? Seems like that is the key person to convince especially because he has a related "Clean Cars For America" proposal that provides a cash voucher when trading in a gas-powered car that could be incorporated into the infrastructure bill. He had concerns of the existing EV tax credit being inaccessible to "people who don't pay taxes," so this bill definitely helps by making the credit available to the buyer at purchase time.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
Biden Infrastructure Plan Targets Electric Cars, Clean Power - Bloomberg
Biden’s initiative would give a 10-year extension to tax credits that have been a boon to wind, solar and other renewable energy projects…

Biden is asking Congress to “give consumers point-of-sale rebates and tax incentives to buy American-made EVs, while ensuring that these vehicles are affordable for all families and manufactured by workers with good jobs,” the White House said…

Senator Debbie Stabenow and Representative Dan Kildee, both Michigan Democrats, are working with the White House and Democratic leadership on a plan to do away with the 200,000-vehicle ceiling. Another possible change includes better targeting the credit to middle- and lower-income motorists -- a shift that was part of the Biden campaign’s tax plans, according to the Tax Policy Center, which analyzed them last year.

There's just this outline for now and discussions, but those 3 quotes seem to match up with this Electric CARS Act, which extends credits for 10 years, provides point-of-sale rebate, gets rid of 200k cap, and makes the credit refundable over 5 years helping those with lower tax liabilities.

The last quote also says there's still ongoing discussion, so it's still important to contact your Senators and Representative highlighting how Electric CARS Act matches up with key asks of the White House.
 
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Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
Sounds like President Biden's goal is to have this signed into law by the August recess.
Hopefully legislators will incorporate the language of S.395 / HR.1271 including to "apply to vehicles acquired after December 31, 2020" as otherwise, people might decide against buying EVs now which goes against the intent to "create good jobs electrifying vehicles" in the first place.
 

Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
795
477
Napa, CA
Hopefully legislators will incorporate the language of S.395 / HR.1271 including to "apply to vehicles acquired after December 31, 2020" as otherwise, people might decide against buying EVs now which goes against the intent to "create good jobs electrifying vehicles" in the first place.
Completely agree but that's not how our government works. They will find a way to make it worse before it gets better.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
I didn’t hear the hydrogen part. He says tax incentives and point of sale rebates to help all families afford “clean vehicles of the future”.
Here's the transcript of the speech:
We’re going to provide tax incentives and point-of-sale reberts [sic] — rebates to help all American families afford clean vehicles of the future. The federal government owns an enormous fleet of vehicles which are going to be transitioned to clean electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles right here in the United States, by American workers with American products.
He said "clean vehicles" instead of specifically "electric vehicles," so it sounds more general than the current EV credit. And in his next sentence, he seems to clarify with an example of additionally including hydrogen vehicles. But in any case, it seems almost certain that Tesla vehicles made in the US by American workers will be included and potentially will get even more incentives.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
Biden did emphasize union on today’s briefing, will non union Tesla encounter issues?
He gave the speech at a training center for United Brotherhood of Carpenters, so most likely plenty of union members in the audience to praise during the introduction to get their support. In terms of actual speech content, he did mention unions a couple times:
My American Jobs Plan will put hundreds of thousands of people to work — hundred of thousands of people to work — line workers, electricians, and laborers — laying thousands of miles of transmission line; building a modern, resilient, and fully clean grid; and capping hundreds of thousands of, literally, orphan oil and gas wells that need to be cleaned up because they’re abandoned — paying the same exact rate that a union man or woman would get having dug that well in the first place.

There is talent, innovation everywhere. And this plan connects that talent through cities, small towns, rural communities; through our businesses and our universities; through our entrepreneurs, union workers all across America.

Unclear if incentives will be directly tied to union jobs or just that generally a lot of infrastructure work will pay union workers.
 

RedlineSi

Member
Feb 24, 2021
32
30
Minneapolis

Wedbush analyst Dan Ives expects the federal tax credit to go up to $10,000. He also expects the tax credit ceiling of 200,000 per manufacturer to be phased out. That ” will restore the EV tax credits for stalwarts Tesla and [ General Motors ],” added Ives his Wednesday report.
 

OCJeff

Member
Feb 18, 2021
298
228
SoCal (RSM)
Too bad all these analysts can’t predict the timing of the when the credits will be available so we can know when to order.
Agreed. And even if the bill called for an effective date of 1/1/2021, that will still go through many revisions and that could easily be changed. If they did call out an effective date to start in 2022 then it would cripple the EV sales for 2021. Either way we can't rely on anything until it's approved/signed into law.

Edit: I could see the $10,000 tax credit being for people that trade in an ICE vehicle ($2500 extra for a gas trade in) or something like that. I can't see the base tax credit moving to $10K.
 
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Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
677
1,347
USA
I could see the $10,000 tax credit being for people that trade in an ICE vehicle ($2500 extra for a gas trade in) or something like that.
Senator Schumer's "Clean Cars for America" proposal (pdf) gives at least a $3000 rebate for plug-in electric, plug-in hybrid and hydrogen fuel cell cars with a bonus (unspecified) rebate based on the zero-emission range. An additional $2000 rebate for lower income families under 2x federal poverty level (e.g., family of 4 is about $50k). Add in another 50% base incentive for "made in America with strong labor standards" and another $500 for at US-made batteries and at least 50% domestic content. To qualify, the driveable trade-in gas vehicle needs to be at least 8 years old.

If Wedbush's "up to $10,000" is actually based on this proposal, we could infer the zero-emission range bonus goes up to $2000. ($3000 base + $2000 range) * 1.5 labor-standards + $2000 low-income + $500 domestic = $10,000 rebate.
 
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Big Dog

Active Member
Mar 7, 2016
1,565
1,552
Irvine, CA
Agreed. And even if the bill called for an effective date of 1/1/2021, that will still go through many revisions and that could easily be changed. If they did call out an effective date to start in 2022 then it would cripple the EV sales for 2021. Either way we can't rely on anything until it's approved/signed into law.

Edit: I could see the $10,000 tax credit being for people that trade in an ICE vehicle ($2500 extra for a gas trade in) or something like that. I can't see the base tax credit moving to $10K.

Plus, there is no guarantee that any such ceiling-raising won't come with an income limit or (MSRP cap).
 

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