Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

[FalconFour]

Thank you for this great thread, FalconFour! My case is the more simple one where I need to swap my ECU (1537264-80-B) with the CCS-enabled one (1537264-00-B). I ordered the part from my local SC today and should have it next week. In preparation, I watched a video on how to access the 12v battery in the Y and part of the video showed the presenter disconnecting the First Responder loop:

. Would doing that have the same effect as unplugging the connector under the rear seats?

I have been led to believe that's all it takes... I had my first experience with a Y a couple weeks ago and it was incredibly frustrating (I dropped a socket ) and ended in defeat. I simply couldn't figure out how to disable power in the Y to reboot it.

I also found the Y seems significantly more complicated to access the ECU on... the trunk layout is totally different. No idea how to get started there, but if you do find it, it may be a bit OT in this thread (for the 3) at *this* moment, but the overlap means this thread could evolve into instructions for both the 3 and the Y (which is generally already Gen4, but some with the stripped issue as you have).

Anyway, at least in the 3, if you unplug that connector under the rear seats, without unplugging the 12v battery, it disables the PCS but the car stays awake using its 12v battery... in kind of a "waking up in middle of surgery" moment. It's not terribly happy with that. Not sure exactly how the first responder loop works, but if it's really that simple, it could work well. Please do let me know what you find - if it actually kills power to the whole car or not

If your MCU screen goes dark, that's all it needs.

 

[smatthew]

I have been led to believe that's all it takes... I had my first experience with a Y a couple weeks ago and it was incredibly frustrating (I dropped a socket ) and ended in defeat. I simply couldn't figure out how to disable power in the Y to reboot it.

I also found the Y seems significantly more complicated to access the ECU on... the trunk layout is totally different. No idea how to get started there, but if you do find it, it may be a bit OT in this thread (for the 3) at *this* moment, but the overlap means this thread could evolve into instructions for both the 3 and the Y (which is generally already Gen4, but some with the stripped issue as you have).

Anyway, at least in the 3, if you unplug that connector under the rear seats, without unplugging the 12v battery, it disables the PCS but the car stays awake using its 12v battery... in kind of a "waking up in middle of surgery" moment. It's not terribly happy with that. Not sure exactly how the first responder loop works, but if it's really that simple, it could work well. Please do let me know what you find - if it actually kills power to the whole car or not

If your MCU screen goes dark, that's all it needs.

yeah, you definitely want to disconnect the 12V battery BEFORE disconnect the rear under-seat connector or the first responders loop.

 

[theeskimo]

Fun time: I ran a 250kW test charge today

View attachment 774741

This was with ~30mins of preheating and watching the battery temperature climb, oh god, oh so slowly, from 77f (in garage) up to about 120f, before starting. Indeed, the liquid cooled cable in the V3 Supercharger does make a difference in port temp vs. amps delivered. The port temperature climbed up to (reported) 160f-ish, but I couldn't tell if it was throttling by port temperature or battery (remember, I'm a proud owner of an 81,000-mile 2018 Model 3!). Either way, seemed to be perfectly normal.

View attachment 774742
(v3 Supercharger after a couple minutes)

So, port still works normally for V3 Supercharging at plaid (in the Spaceballs, not Tesla sense) speed. Worth reiterating: no part of the port was actually modified, but the temperature sensors read higher-than-reality until a crossover point of a bit over 170f. That's excessive safety, I figure. Just need to make sure the car is still operating normally even though it always thinks the port is ... fairly warm.

I finished off the day by strolling over to ChargePoint HQ and trying out one of their shiny new 200kW CCS stations -- that I only learned about halfway through my top-off charge at the slower stations, so I dipped up to 90kW after switching, but throttled by being at 70% SOC.

Glad it still works at V3 speeds. Looking back at a few of my V3 charges where I was pre-conditioned and at a low SOC, it does seem like you tapered much faster here than I've seen in my 2019 Performance. I don't seem to drop below 200kW until around 40% SOC. Could be any number of reasons for this though.

 

[FalconFour]

yeah, you definitely want to disconnect the 12V battery BEFORE disconnect the rear under-seat connector or the first responders loop.

Okay, but hold up a moment. Regarding the Y, there's no easy way to disconnect the 12v without disassembling a fairly significant chunk of the under-hood area (they're back to being like the Model S, and lord knows why - probably that gigantic freakin' Biohazard filter they put in the Y). So, the procedure seems to just be "unplug the first responder loop" and that's it - the whole car should go flat then.

That's what I'd like to find out, and hoping someone can test/verify so we can know if that truly is the case.

 

[MP3Mike]

Okay, but hold up a moment. Regarding the Y, there's no easy way to disconnect the 12v without disassembling a fairly significant chunk of the under-hood area (they're back to being like the Model S, and lord knows why - probably that gigantic freakin' Biohazard filter they put in the Y). So, the procedure seems to just be "unplug the first responder loop" and that's it - the whole car should go flat then.

That's what I'd like to find out, and hoping someone can test/verify so we can know if that truly is the case.

No, that should only disable the HV battery, the rest of the car will continue to work until the low voltage battery is dead.

You don't want power brakes/steering, lights, windows, door releases, etc. to stop working just because the air bags went off.

 

[FalconFour]

No, that should only disable the HV battery, the rest of the car will continue to work until the low voltage battery is dead.

You don't want power brakes/steering, lights, windows, door releases, etc. to stop working just because the air bags went off.

That's not the case here though... air bags don't disconnect the first responder loop. It disconnects the HV battery. In the Model S at least, the one I did a 12v swap on, disconnecting this loop DOES power down the whole car immediately. That's why there's a grain of truth to the possibility that it's how it works in the Y as well.

Someone with service manual access ($30/hr) can easily confirm the proper procedure as this procedure is the first part of any ECU replacement procedure. It's frustrating that this procedure seems to not be posted anywhere I could find, like it is for the 3. Anywhere you look, it's all about the Model 3. Nothing specific to the Y, despite the major differences. I already dumped Tesla the $30 for the hour I needed to find the Gen4 harness differences (those wiring diagrams don't seem to have "leaked" yet).

The fundamental problem remains that there's no easy way to disconnect the 12v battery with the new arrangement they put in the Y. Nowhere near as easy as it is in the 3.

 

[FalconFour]

It's restock day! Our friendly mysterious eBay seller seems to now be available

A bundle of wires with a board and resistors, with 24-pin housings | eBay

And still rocking in mid- 2023. and now into 2024 as well! As long as y'all keep wanting 'em, we'll keep making 'em! Inspired by a forum thread. If you know, you know. Designed by FalconFour and Atlanta_nerd_boy (2muchsun).

www.ebay.com

More will be built throughout the weekend 'til all 15 copies are built and boxed (only quantities in boxes are listed)

 

[smatthew]

That's not the case here though... air bags don't disconnect the first responder loop. It disconnects the HV battery. In the Model S at least, the one I did a 12v swap on, disconnecting this loop DOES power down the whole car immediately. That's why there's a grain of truth to the possibility that it's how it works in the Y as well.

Someone with service manual access ($30/hr) can easily confirm the proper procedure as this procedure is the first part of any ECU replacement procedure. It's frustrating that this procedure seems to not be posted anywhere I could find, like it is for the 3. Anywhere you look, it's all about the Model 3. Nothing specific to the Y, despite the major differences. I already dumped Tesla the $30 for the hour I needed to find the Gen4 harness differences (those wiring diagrams don't seem to have "leaked" yet).

The fundamental problem remains that there's no easy way to disconnect the 12v battery with the new arrangement they put in the Y. Nowhere near as easy as it is in the 3.

Interestingly enough, the first responder/firefighter loop does two things. It disconnects the HV battery AND it disables the airbags.

 

[FalconFour]

OK, until someone can post here the detailed technique for the Y (as it is for the 3), I really don't care to hear more babble about the loop or which to unplug or what disconnects what or whatever. It's frustrating that we just keep dabbling in theoreticals when nobody with a Y is poking up to say "here's what I found, here's what I did, here's what happened".

Let's just get back to the 3, unless someone has something tangible to say about the Y.

BTW, while the mysterious eBay seller doesn't offer support or context, I'm more than happy to hear experiences, questions, or support requests from anyone that got the kit here.

 

[smatthew]

OK, until someone can post here the detailed technique for the Y (as it is for the 3), I really don't care to hear more babble about the loop or which to unplug or what disconnects what or whatever. It's frustrating that we just keep dabbling in theoreticals when nobody with a Y is poking up to say "here's what I found, here's what I did, here's what happened".

Let's just get back to the 3, unless someone has something tangible to say about the Y.

BTW, while the mysterious eBay seller doesn't offer support or context, I'm more than happy to hear experiences, questions, or support requests from anyone that got the kit here.

Can you summarize what parts a 2018 Model 3 owner would have to replace if they didn't use the mysterious eBay kit?

 

[FalconFour]

Can you summarize what parts a 2018 Model 3 owner would have to replace if they didn't use the mysterious eBay kit?

- Charge port (itself) (1490374-10-D)
- Charge port door/front (possibly 1501773-30-A but can't find earlier/later PNs so can't verify that's Gen4 or even if Gen4 is any different)
- Charge port to ECU harness (1551811-00-B)
- Charge port ECU (1537264-00-B)
- Charge port to battery harness (1501773-30-A)

These are the significantly different parts I can trace together... and honestly I'm not even sure if they're compatible with "Gen3" cars (e.g. if the mounting holes of the port to frame are the same - or if the routing of the 2/0 AWG orange charging cable mounts to the same points).

In fact, as I look at the charge port to battery harness, it looks to have a completely different connector for the battery So honestly, that may not even be possible!

 

[israndy]

That's gonna suck for Tesla when the CCS adapter comes out and all us 2018'ers that haven't done your hack run to the service center for an upgrade to make our $250 adapter work

 

[wlee]

Can you summarize what parts a 2018 Model 3 owner would have to replace if they didn't use the mysterious eBay kit?

If your car is GEN3 (older car like yours), you can just replace your NA version (1092755-98-D or 1092755-99-D) ECU to GEN3 1092755-82-B Europe version. So no other parts need to replace.

 

[FalconFour]

If your car is GEN3 (older car like yours), you can just replace your NA version (1092755-98-D or 1092755-99-D) ECU to GEN3 1092755-82-B Europe version. So no other parts need to replace.

Doesn't that require a config change (incredibly intrusive gateway hack)? I wanted a config change to change my tail-light config to EU style*, but dead-ended in that doing a config change was required (and basically near impossible).
* - I have EU lights, but it isn't operated properly - good enough, but slightly wrong in that the brake lights also turn on the amber signals as well as the brake lights

That's gonna suck for Tesla when the CCS adapter comes out and all us 2018'ers that haven't done your hack run to the service center for an upgrade to make our $250 adapter work

The Gen4 ECU is theoretically electrically compatible with the Gen3 port (2017-late 2020), so only a firmware change would make it work. I suspect when the time comes, Tesla will have an alternate P/N that makes Gen4 work with the old ports ... no adapter needed. Thus also why I decided to make it a removable adapter, not actually changing anything about the stock harness. The firmware changes are, in theory, just as simple as ignoring the "cover sensor" (continuity pin, a 47k resistor in my adapter), and changing the thermal sensor voltage mapping to match the 10k. The old ground pins are still there on the board. The only "maybe" is the 2.7k resistor for the prox pin (pin missing on Gen4 ECU, undefined in wiring diagram = possible backwards compatibility). With that, the Gen4 would work as a plug-in replacement.

I really suspect that's the intended retrofit, if it ever comes out - especially given that the Gen4 port seems fundamentally incompatible otherwise.

 

[FalconFour]

Finally, wrapping up the first post (as I can still edit that), with a summary so far:

What is it?​

"Gee, I wish my Tesla, despite having access to the country's biggest quick charging network, could also charge on stations made for Other EVs too". Said no-one ever. Except... well, there are use cases for it. And with Tesla now teasing "CCS adapter support" in the car, I originally wanted to get ahead of the curve and upgrade my charge port ECU. It turns out that, while backwards compatibility SEEMS to be baked into the hardware design, something doesn't quite mesh properly. I set out to figure out what. The solution is to make your old charge port ("Gen3") act and feel like a Gen4 charge port, for the Gen4 charge port ECU, which supports CCS.

Does this apply to my car?​

If your car is built prior to Oct 2020, yes. If it's built after Oct 2020, check for "CCS adapter support" in the Additional Vehicle Information under the Software tab of the car settings page. If it's "Not Installed" (and post-Oct 2020), then chances are, you have a Gen4 charge port and a "stripped" ECU. You can simply replace the stripped Gen4 (P/N 1537264-80-B) with an un-stripped full version (1537264-00-B).

Where do I get it?​

You can get the ECU "by name" by contacting Tesla Service one of two ways: one (the way I did it) was just to wander into a service center and ask for a part at the counter. Two (I've tried, and it worked - but with a little confusion as parts ordering doesn't seem to be a common ask), is to "schedule service" as "other", and explain what you want to order. The part number is "1537264-00-B" for the Gen4 ECU (for North America at least).

As far as the adapter goes (the result of this thread so far), there's a friendly neighborhood eBay seller with a similar bird's name and a bag over his head saying "definitely not a bird", selling A Bundle of Wires over here: A bundle of wires with crimps, some with resistors, & 24-pin connector housings | eBay

How do I build it?​

Follow the wiring diagram in this post (my "final answer" so far):

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Welp, can confirm the old port doesn't have a resistor on Prox. Lame. Well, good news is, the Prox signal was split in 2 pins (copied/shorted to both) probably for this very reason (and Gen3 has 2.7k between the Prox pin and Gnd). So I just have to add the resistor that changed places, now we...

teslamotorsclub.com

Note that the pin numbers are shown on the connector housings... in fairly small print. Look at the photos throughout that page for help. Note that there's a terminal lock on each connector (press both sides to activate... screwdriver in and pry up both sides to de-activate). I take care not to activate it before shipping so hopefully it arrives "open" and you can slide pins into it properly.

How do I install it?​

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Welp, can confirm the old port doesn't have a resistor on Prox. Lame. Well, good news is, the Prox signal was split in 2 pins (copied/shorted to both) probably for this very reason (and Gen3 has 2.7k between the Prox pin and Gnd). So I just have to add the resistor that changed places, now we...

teslamotorsclub.com

BYO "getting into the area and pulling the ECU out" though. Involves some minor trunk-liner-pulling. Relatively easy 10-minute job if familiar, perhaps 30 if not.

 

[terranx]

That's gonna suck for Tesla when the CCS adapter comes out and all us 2018'ers that haven't done your hack run to the service center for an upgrade to make our $250 adapter work

If Tesla makes an official upgrade path for gen 3 cars, I imagine they'll either release a Gen 3 variant with CCS support (basically the european ECU) or will have an updated software configuration for the Gen 4 ECU that plays nice with the gen 3 charge port.

If they don't make an official upgrade path, then a mod like this thread's will have to be done. Or possibly using European gen 3 ECU if the software isn't a prolem

 

[terranx]

You know, now that I think of it, Tesla's South Korean pages don't seem to imply a build date cutoff for the CCS 1 adapter (CCS 콤보 1 어댑터).

Anyone know what charge ECU South Korean Model 3s/Ys came with prior to October 2020?

Edit: Answered my own question. Trying to get the gen 3 ECU listed here might be worth a shot. Interestingly the gen 4 part number is also different though, so I'm not sure if there's something else that would cause a compatibility issue

 

[Randy-12]

Finally, wrapping up the first post (as I can still edit that), with a summary so far:

What is it?​

"Gee, I wish my Tesla, despite having access to the country's biggest quick charging network, could also charge on stations made for Other EVs too". Said no-one ever. Except... well, there are use cases for it. And with Tesla now teasing "CCS adapter support" in the car, I originally wanted to get ahead of the curve and upgrade my charge port ECU. It turns out that, while backwards compatibility SEEMS to be baked into the hardware design, something doesn't quite mesh properly. I set out to figure out what. The solution is to make your old charge port ("Gen3") act and feel like a Gen4 charge port, for the Gen4 charge port ECU, which supports CCS.

Does this apply to my car?​

If your car is built prior to Oct 2020, yes. If it's built after Oct 2020, check for "CCS adapter support" in the Additional Vehicle Information under the Software tab of the car settings page. If it's "Not Installed" (and post-Oct 2020), then chances are, you have a Gen4 charge port and a "stripped" ECU. You can simply replace the stripped Gen4 (P/N 1537264-80-B) with an un-stripped full version (1537264-00-B).

Where do I get it?​

You can get the ECU "by name" by contacting Tesla Service one of two ways: one (the way I did it) was just to wander into a service center and ask for a part at the counter. Two (I've tried, and it worked - but with a little confusion as parts ordering doesn't seem to be a common ask), is to "schedule service" as "other", and explain what you want to order. The part number is "1537264-00-B" for the Gen4 ECU (for North America at least).

As far as the adapter goes (the result of this thread so far), there's a friendly neighborhood eBay seller with a similar bird's name and a bag over his head saying "definitely not a bird", selling A Bundle of Wires over here: A bundle of wires with crimps, some with resistors, & 24-pin connector housings | eBay

How do I build it?​

Follow the wiring diagram in this post (my "final answer" so far):

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Welp, can confirm the old port doesn't have a resistor on Prox. Lame. Well, good news is, the Prox signal was split in 2 pins (copied/shorted to both) probably for this very reason (and Gen3 has 2.7k between the Prox pin and Gnd). So I just have to add the resistor that changed places, now we...

teslamotorsclub.com

Note that the pin numbers are shown on the connector housings... in fairly small print. Look at the photos throughout that page for help. Note that there's a terminal lock on each connector (press both sides to activate... screwdriver in and pry up both sides to de-activate). I take care not to activate it before shipping so hopefully it arrives "open" and you can slide pins into it properly.

How do I install it?​

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Welp, can confirm the old port doesn't have a resistor on Prox. Lame. Well, good news is, the Prox signal was split in 2 pins (copied/shorted to both) probably for this very reason (and Gen3 has 2.7k between the Prox pin and Gnd). So I just have to add the resistor that changed places, now we...

teslamotorsclub.com

BYO "getting into the area and pulling the ECU out" though. Involves some minor trunk-liner-pulling. Relatively easy 10-minute job if familiar, perhaps 30 if not.

This all kind of a moot topic until such time in the future that Tesla starts selling the adapter in North America.

I've seen no date or expected date on this, or have you?

 

[terranx]

This all kind of a moot topic until such time in the future that Tesla starts selling the adapter in North America.

There are 3rd party adapters available that do work, but still require CCS support car side.

 

[Randy-12]

There are 3rd party adapters available that do work, but still require CCS support car side.

The 3rd party one that I know of is well over $500 US and I think he is in the Ukraine, so I somehow don't think he will be shipping for a long while as I'm sure he has other things on his plate....like surviving.

Are there others that I have missed besides the Setec that keeps getting bricked by Tesla?