Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

[abraha2d]

I broke one of my Tesla charging port spacer pins today. Hopefully Tesla can fix this without replacing the whole charging port.

Can't see too well in the pic, but it looks like just the "deadfront" is dislodged. Should be a simple replacement if that's all it is, it's a ~$10 part.

 

[JulienWA]

okay..ebay part arrived. Torn between waiting for another software update or just driving up to the service center's parking lot this weekend and doing the install there so i can force a reflash. The part was a used 80-B from a totaled 2021 tesla that only had body damage. Like i said, I realize this isn't the upgrade but until that part comes in (if it ever does..) i'm essentially stuck with zero slow charging.

This didnt work and I'm just going to give up and wait until my service center appointment if it ever happens /grumble

 

[Reddy_KW]

Thank you falconFour for the bundle of wires. Install was easy compared to some other mods I have done. The car recognizes the new ECU after I reflashed with Service Mode Install. That method works good if you don’t want to wait for the next software update. I just drove up to my nearest body shop and was able to get into service mode and drive back home for the rest of the work .

Folks will be trying to snap these charge port ECU’s up like toilet paper during Covid if Tesla keep upping their supercharger fees.

 

[FalconFour]

This didnt work and I'm just going to give up and wait until my service center appointment if it ever happens /grumble

OK, maybe we should dig into diagnosing the port problem separately? Sounds like your problem might not be ECU related, if you swapped the ECU and still have the same problems.

Create and link us to a new thread, and we'll follow you there to help

 

[JulienWA]

I was reading it could also be the actual "onboard charger" ---blech.

 

[FalconFour]

Found the thread 1537264-00-B vs 80-B

 

[owlowlowlowl]

Can't see too well in the pic, but it looks like just the "deadfront" is dislodged. Should be a simple replacement if that's all it is, it's a ~$10 part.

This is the part. Thank you for sending the technical service bulletin. Now I'll remember this as a "pin deadfront" - glad to know it's a fairly inexpensive item and straightforward to replace and check voltages.

 

[owlowlowlowl]

A few CCS charging reports with my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD:
- Volta - 85% SoC - 11kWh (rated at 50kWh max, I believe)
- EV Connect - 36% SoC - 41kWh then eventually 46kWh (rated at 50kWh)
- Electrify America - 56% SoC - 53kWh then at 42kWh around 75% SoC (rated at 150kWh)

At the Electrify America station today, there was one other car charging, an Ionic 5. It was charging at around 141kWh at 40% SoC => 110kWh at 80% SoC ==> 40kWh at 90% SoC.

Anyone know why our cars may not get as fast of a charge with CCS compared to an Ionic 5, for example, since with the Tesla Supercharger we can get 150-200kWh at the fast stations in the lower SoC range?

 

[FalconFour]

Anyone know why our cars may not get as fast of a charge with CCS compared to an Ionic 5

gonna be brutally honest here: because the Ioniq 5 has superior charging tech. 800v architecture; able to pump more kW with a smaller cable/less station equipment.

Tesla pumps 250kW by overdriving the cables, something nobody else seems willing to do. I argue that other station manufacturers really ought to do that, but... nobody seems willing to try. But without breaking rules (as Tesla does), 800v cars can more easily gulp down massive kW - because the same amps result in double the watts with a higher voltage. Amps need more copper (thicker cables)... volts don't.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

 

[lynyrdM]

A few CCS charging reports with my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD:
- Volta - 85% SoC - 11kWh (rated at 50kWh max, I believe)
- EV Connect - 36% SoC - 41kWh then eventually 46kWh (rated at 50kWh)
- Electrify America - 56% SoC - 53kWh then at 42kWh around 75% SoC (rated at 150kWh)

At the Electrify America station today, there was one other car charging, an Ionic 5. It was charging at around 141kWh at 40% SoC => 110kWh at 80% SoC ==> 40kWh at 90% SoC.

Anyone know why our cars may not get as fast of a charge with CCS compared to an Ionic 5, for example, since with the Tesla Supercharger we can get 150-200kWh at the fast stations in the lower SoC range?

Let’s get the pedantic part out of the way. Charging rates are in units of power (kW) and energy is in units of kWh. You probably already know that but it peeves me to see them get confused.

As to your question, it can be a lot of factors but my first guess would be charger issues (a frequent problem in my area with Francis BTCPower stations) or your battery not having the ideal conditions for charging (battery needs to be hot enough).

I have achieved 188kW with my adapter at an Electrify America station with 500 Amp chargers. I did it on a hot day and yo-yo’d (accelerate hard then regen) the car on the way to the charger to get the battery as hot as possible (to promote faster charging).

Everything has to come together just right to allow for this. The charger has to be 500A capable, the battery has to be at a low enough state of charge and the battery has to be in the ideal temperature range to accept that level of power.

Edit: Also know that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Yes the Ioniq 5 can reach high speeds and hold them longer but it can only do so on a hot day and only with even more perfect conditions. The Ioniq 5 tends to thermal throttle hard if its cold (achieving only 60-70kW on mild days) and throttle hard if its too hot (randomly throttling from like 200kW down to 10kW) only to shoot right back up after reaching better thermal conditions again. By comparison our cold Model 3 rarely gives me less than 90kW at a low state of charge, heats up quickly and holds a consistent charging rate. If you can precondition to a nearby supercharger its not even a contest in the winter.

 

[smatthew]

At the Electrify America station today, there was one other car charging, an Ionic 5. It was charging at around 141kWh at 40% SoC => 110kWh at 80% SoC ==> 40kWh at 90% SoC.

Anyone know why our cars may not get as fast of a charge with CCS compared to an Ionic 5, for example, since with the Tesla Supercharger we can get 150-200kWh at the fast stations in the lower SoC range?

Here's an easy one. You were on a "150kW". The Ioniq was at a "350kW".

You would have been getting similar charge rates if you were on the 350kw charger.

Also, the kW ratings are not directly comparable between Tesla Superchargers and CCS chargers. Basically, the rating on a Supercharger is based upon the 10% full battery voltage (288 volts) , and the rating on a CCS charger is based upon the highest battery level the charger can handle (450V).

So, the equivalent to a 150kW Supercharger is (150 / 288 * 450) would be a 235kW CCS Charger.

 

[CubedRoot]

Success! My bundle of wires came in the mail and they somehow assembled themselves into a very nice harness. So I drove over to a collision center (Advanced Collision If your in Chattanooga) and entered service mode.

Then drove home and swapped out the proper charge port ecu I picked up on eBay a long time ago for around 80 bucks. And installed the bundle of wires.

Then I requested a reinstall from the service screen and let the car do its thing. I never unplugged the 12v system or disconnected the HV contractor during this whole process.

The car came back and I’m fully CCS enabled. I have my CCS adapter that Harumio shipped so I’ll try and give 350kw EA station near me a try. And then head over to the V3 supercharger at a low SoC to see if it pulls the full charging curve.

 

[RayK]

So I basically murdered a pair of avians with a single rock. I scheduled a proactive replacement of my 12V battery with Santa Clara mobile service yesterday and asked if they could also bring out a 1537264-00-B. I really wasn't expecting one but was pleasantly surprised when the tech handed me this:

The mobile tech was slightly curious as to why I needed the ECU so I told him I was planning to make my car CCS capable. I am planning a trip up to Oregon in two weeks (really the only reason for the proactive 12V replacement) and I'll probably wait until after I get back before installing the ECU. That, and also because I've misplaced the "bundle of wires with crimps" so I ordered the parts from DigiKey and Mouser. I expect to find the @FalconFour package a day or so after getting the parts since that's the why Murphy's Law works.

 

[RayK]

.... since that's the *why* Murphy's Law works.

*way*

 

[owlowlowlowl]

@FalconFour makes sense - appreciate the info about the differences in charging architecture. Perhaps Tesla will "catch up" and move to the higher-voltage architecture in the future.

@lynyrdM yes, apologies, meant to use kW as the charging rate. Also appreciate the insights about weather conditions and pre-conditioning. In fact, I tried charging again later in the day (today) and got 68kW at 70% SoC by pre-conditioning for about 5-10 minutes prior to my arrival to another 150kW EA station (and perhaps there may have been other factors involved being a different EA station). Interesting to hear about the inconsistent charging behavior on the Ionic 5.

@smatthew can you further explain the comment about the "150kW" and "350kW"? The Ionic 5 and I were both charging at the same time today at the EA station, and both were rated at 150kW. I'll need to look for a 350kW EA station sometime soon though...

gonna be brutally honest here: because the Ioniq 5 has superior charging tech. 800v architecture; able to pump more kW with a smaller cable/less station equipment.

Tesla pumps 250kW by overdriving the cables, something nobody else seems willing to do. I argue that other station manufacturers really ought to do that, but... nobody seems willing to try. But without breaking rules (as Tesla does), 800v cars can more easily gulp down massive kW - because the same amps result in double the watts with a higher voltage. Amps need more copper (thicker cables)... volts don't.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Let’s get the pedantic part out of the way. Charging rates are in units of power (kW) and energy is in units of kWh. You probably already know that but it peeves me to see them get confused.

As to your question, it can be a lot of factors but my first guess would be charger issues (a frequent problem in my area with Francis BTCPower stations) or your battery not having the ideal conditions for charging (battery needs to be hot enough).

I have achieved 188kW with my adapter at an Electrify America station with 500 Amp chargers. I did it on a hot day and yo-yo’d (accelerate hard then regen) the car on the way to the charger to get the battery as hot as possible (to promote faster charging).

Everything has to come together just right to allow for this. The charger has to be 500A capable, the battery has to be at a low enough state of charge and the battery has to be in the ideal temperature range to accept that level of power.

Edit: Also know that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Yes the Ioniq 5 can reach high speeds and hold them longer but it can only do so on a hot day and only with even more perfect conditions. The Ioniq 5 tends to thermal throttle hard if its cold (achieving only 60-70kW on mild days) and throttle hard if its too hot (randomly throttling from like 200kW down to 10kW) only to shoot right back up after reaching better thermal conditions again. By comparison our cold Model 3 rarely gives me less than 90kW at a low state of charge, heats up quickly and holds a consistent charging rate. If you can precondition to a nearby supercharger its not even a contest in the winter.

Here's an easy one. You were on a "150kW". The Ioniq was at a "350kW".

You would have been getting similar charge rates if you were on the 350kw charger.

Also, the kW ratings are not directly comparable between Tesla Superchargers and CCS chargers. Basically, the rating on a Supercharger is based upon the 10% full battery voltage (288 volts) , and the rating on a CCS charger is based upon the highest battery level the charger can handle (450V).

So, the equivalent to a 150kW Supercharger is (150 / 288 * 450) would be a 235kW CCS Charger.

 

[FalconFour]

So I basically murdered a pair of avians with a single rock

GAH WOULD YOU PLEASE FEED BIRDS WITH SCONES think of the birds, lol

 

[RayK]

GAH WOULD YOU PLEASE FEED BIRDS WITH SCONES think of the birds, lol

Sorry about that reference. I forgot about your handle.

OT: My wife and I many years ago had 9 cockatiels, most of them related to each other (Mom, Dad, first hatched and four from a second clutch). I'm currently hand feeding a pair of western bluebirds and watching them feed their two offspring from this year, and their teenager from last year is still hanging around.

Two screengrabs of Dad bluebird from a recent video:

Also tossing mealworms down on the ground for house finches and towhees. So I can't be all that bad for birds, now can I?

Back on topic: I may, after all, install the new ECU before my trip. I should have all of the parts after a run to Anchor Electronics next week. There's a CCS station in Ashland not too far from where we are staying. There's also a CHAdeMO there as well so it's not absolute that I have to have CCS up and running when I'm there.

 

[smatthew]

@smatthew can you further explain the comment about the "150kW" and "350kW"? The Ionic 5 and I were both charging at the same time today at the EA station, and both were rated at 150kW. I'll need to look for a 350kW EA station sometime soon though...

The 150/350kW signs at EA stations are really small and most drivers don't notice them.

I assume they were on the 350kW station since those are the kind of charge rates I've seen on Ioniq charge reviews when charging on a 350kW. If they were on a 150kW then I'm impressed.

 

[lynyrdM]

@FalconFour makes sense - appreciate the info about the differences in charging architecture. Perhaps Tesla will "catch up" and move to the higher-voltage architecture in the future.

@lynyrdM yes, apologies, meant to use kW as the charging rate. Also appreciate the insights about weather conditions and pre-conditioning. In fact, I tried charging again later in the day (today) and got 68kW at 70% SoC by pre-conditioning for about 5-10 minutes prior to my arrival to another 150kW EA station (and perhaps there may have been other factors involved being a different EA station). Interesting to hear about the inconsistent charging behavior on the Ionic 5.

@smatthew can you further explain the comment about the "150kW" and "350kW"? The Ionic 5 and I were both charging at the same time today at the EA station, and both were rated at 150kW. I'll need to look for a 350kW EA station sometime soon though...

The confusing thing for EA and others is a lack of consistency with their amperage ratings. Some 350kW stations only output 350 Amps (BTCPower, software limited ABB stations) while others output 500 Amps (New Signet units, unlocked ABB units). So just because a station says 350kW doesn’t mean it will actually be faster than the 150kW unit next to it for our 400V cars since they may both only deliver 350 amps.

350kW stations can only reach that type
of speed with higher voltage. So if the station is 350 Amp like the BTCPower stations tend to be then 350,000 Watts / 350 Amps = 1000 Volts are required to reach that 350kW speed. This is what makes calling those 350 Amp stations “350kW” kind of misleading to me since there isn’t a car out there that hits 1000V on its pack.

It’s much easier on a 500 Amp station to hit 350kW and I believe the Hummer EV actually does. So if we do the same math 350,000 Watts / 500 Amps = 700 Volts. That’s much more realistic since many cars are starting to have that type of voltage in their packs (Hummer EV, Ioniq 5, Taycan, E-Tron GT).

For the Model 3/Y, the voltage tends to go from 360V at a low SOC to around 400V at a high SOC. So on a 350 amp charger under ideal conditions, we’d see somewhere between 126kW to 137kW depending on pack voltage and charge curve.

For a 500A charger you do the same math at the charging peak and see that 385V * 500 Amps = 192,000 Watts is about the max we will see.

The new generation S/X can go faster since their pack voltage is about 50V higher. Using the same Power (Watts) = Voltage (V) * Current (Amps) equation you can see that nets them out another 17-25kW over the 3/Y.

When you want to know how fast you can charge, look at the Amps instead of the nameplate kW rating. The nameplate power rating is sort of a maximum that no one will achieve (usually) but you can see what’s possible by doing the math yourself (multiply 385V by the max amps of the charger).

So as another expample, there are a lot of “125kW” Chargepoint chargers in Colorado. If I wanted to use one I wouldn’t get anything close to 125kW. That’s because the chargers only output 200 Amps. What I will actually get is around 385V * 200A = 77,000W which is basically urban Supercharger speed.

 

[miimura]

So as another example, there are a lot of “125kW” Chargepoint chargers in Colorado. If I wanted to use one I wouldn’t get anything close to 125kW. That’s because the chargers only output 200 Amps. What I will actually get is around 385V * 200A = 77,000W which is basically urban Supercharger speed.

Wow, I had to look it up - you're right, the paired "125kW" Chargepoint stations are limited to 200A output. Very strange. Each pedestal has 156A output, but shared they can only deliver 200A to a single vehicle. That's disappointing.