Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

[lynyrdM]

Wow, I had to look it up - you're right, the paired "125kW" Chargepoint stations are limited to 200A output. Very strange. Each pedestal has 156A output, but shared they can only deliver 200A to a single vehicle. That's disappointing.

I’ve never loved that labeling but in fairness to them, 800V cars like the Ioniq 5 and EV6 can come close to meeting their 125kW rating and I appreciate their reliability. They’re some of the few CCS chargers that I can use with confidence they will work the first time.

What I really don’t like is the rate structure in Colorado. Some of them charge both by the minute and the energy (kWh) making them insanely expensive. Thankfully here in Oklahoma our Chargepoint operators are the opposite and my favorite location only charges 18¢ per kWh.

 

[owlowlowlowl]

The 150/350kW signs at EA stations are really small and most drivers don't notice them.

I assume they were on the 350kW station since those are the kind of charge rates I've seen on Ioniq charge reviews when charging on a 350kW. If they were on a 150kW then I'm impressed.

I just checked the Electrify America app for the stations I was at yesterday. All 4 stations at that location are rated "up to 150kW," so the Ionic was getting a really good ~140kW out of 150kW while starting out. I thought the Ionic's overall charging curve was quite impressive, especially above 80% SoC, sustaining over 100kW even at that point.

 

[owlowlowlowl]

When you want to know how fast you can charge, look at the Amps instead of the nameplate kW rating. The nameplate power rating is sort of a maximum that no one will achieve (usually) but you can see what’s possible by doing the math yourself (multiply 385V by the max amps of the charger).

I love this information; it's bringing back my good memories of high school physics classes. I was an EECS major in college but only did the CS side professionally after college. I'm trying to get my son into more circuitry projects, though, and initially he loved the snap-in circuitry kits, and we moved on to Elegoo afterwards.

Where specifically does the station usually show the Amperage capacity? I looked at my picture of the EA charging station and my EA app, but I couldn't find the Amp rating. (I may not have looked hard enough.)

 

[abraha2d]

Where specifically does the station usually show the Amperage capacity? I looked at my picture of the EA charging station and my EA app, but I couldn't find the Amp rating. (I may not have looked hard enough.)

The one station I looked for it, it was on the side up near the top (along with the manufacturer and safety certification standards).

 

[lynyrdM]

I love this information; it's bringing back my good memories of high school physics classes. I was an EECS major in college but only did the CS side professionally after college. I'm trying to get my son into more circuitry projects, though, and initially he loved the snap-in circuitry kits, and we moved on to Elegoo afterwards.

Where specifically does the station usually show the Amperage capacity? I looked at my picture of the EA charging station and my EA app, but I couldn't find the Amp rating. (I may not have looked hard enough.)

It doesn’t say anywhere on the app. You have to look at the physical stations on PlugShare to guess which they are (some users might say in a comment or take a pic of the nameplate which will show it).

Generally though, the new EA Signet Chargers like these are 500 Amp capable

The Newer EV-Go Signet chargers are 540 Amp capable

The older Signet Electrify America units can be 500A capable if they have enough power modules (not always)

Likewise the Electrify America ABB units can be 500 Amp capable if they have enough power modules (varies but mine in Bristow, OK do!)

The only Electrify America chargers that definitely are 350 Amp only are the BTCPower chargers which do no offer any 500 Amp capability

 

[ambudriver03]

I guess they round down on kWh delivered? (and maybe teslafi is reading high on the input?)

28.395×0.43= 12.20

28.000x0.43= 12.04

 

[owlowlowlowl]

Thank you, @abraha2d and @lynyrdM . The EA stations in San Francisco proper and the ones in Fresno are fairly new within the past 1-2 years and seem to be mostly the Signet chargers. (Funny, I initially though "Signet" was the name of the charging station since I've only started using the EA charging network this week.) I'll pay attention to the information labels now! I don't see any of the EVgo Signet chargers around me yet.

@ambudriver03 I was trying to figure out how EA charges, and it rounded down for both times I've used it so far, but I also upgraded to the + pass for this month to test it out. I stopped my second session at 15.85kWh, and I got charged for 15kWh of energy.

The one station I looked for it, it was on the side up near the top (along with the manufacturer and safety certification standards).

It doesn’t say anywhere on the app. You have to look at the physical stations on PlugShare to guess which they are (some users might say in a comment or take a pic of the nameplate which will show it).

Generally though, the new EA Signet Chargers like these are 500 Amp capable

View attachment 812700

I guess they round down on kWh delivered? (and maybe teslafi is reading high on the input?)

28.395×0.43= 12.20

28.000x0.43= 12.04

 

[Craig_in_PA]

Thanks to Falcon and 2MuchSun. Did my homework and made the swap in local SC parking lot. Install took 2 minutes plus software reinstall and reboot.

Only error code is trunk light disconnected which will be easy to fix and only appears while in service mode. Now to wait for my CCS adaptor to arrive and fix the upholstery.

My 4 year old car just improved.

 

[Power Surge]

Got my bundle of wires (thanks Falcon!), got my adapter due for delivery this week, but still can't get a charge port ECU. Tried the two closest service centers, both of which not very willing to help.

If anyone out there has a local SC that has one, please PM me and let me know! I'd even be happy to paypal you if you grab it for me.

 

[RayK]

Got a tiny incentive to do the upgrade before I leave on my trip in two weeks:

 

[Power Surge]

Got a tiny incentive to do the upgrade before I leave on my trip in two weeks:

View attachment 813100

I got that last night too.... just wish I had a charge port ECU lol.

 

[RayK]

Well, I HAD the bundle of wires three and a half months ago but have misplaced the package somewhere in my house. I ordered the connectors and pins/sockets last week and only have to pick up the resistors tomorrow at a local surplus electronics shop.

I ordered the ECU in person from a service center (Sunnyvale, CA) several weeks back but never heard back from them. So when I scheduled Santa Clara mobile service via the app to come out late last week and swap out my 12V battery, I asked if they had an ECU to bring it along. Surprisingly they did. I had gone to that service center before ending up in Sunnyvale and they were swamped with cars waiting to be checked in. They told me to order the ECU via the app but thinking that it was better/easier to order in person, I drove to Sunnyvale.

edit: Somebody up thread mentioned that they mail ordered an ECU from an out-of-state (I believe) service center. Maybe try there?

 

[Power Surge]

Well, I HAD the bundle of wires three and a half months ago but have misplaced the package somewhere in my house. I ordered the connectors and pins/sockets last week and only have to pick up the resistors tomorrow at a local surplus electronics shop.

I ordered the ECU in person from a service center (Sunnyvale, CA) several weeks back but never heard back from them. So when I scheduled Santa Clara mobile service via the app to come out late last week and swap out my 12V battery, I asked if they had an ECU to bring it along. Surprisingly they did. I had gone to that service center before ending up in Sunnyvale and they were swamped with cars waiting to be checked in. They told me to order the ECU via the app but thinking that it was better/easier to order in person, I drove to Sunnyvale.

edit: Somebody up thread mentioned that they mail ordered an ECU from an out-of-state (I believe) service center. Maybe try there?

It's crazy how different they all seem to work. I went to two service centers in person, and was told there is no retail parts counter. I had to email the parts guy (Tesla has this thing against phone conversations apparently), and he responded once, then never again.

 

[CubedRoot]

I was able to get 184kw on a Electrify America station in Collegedale (Chattanooga), TN. Car was warmed using preconditioning for a while before going over there and I was a low SoC.

 

[DMC5180]

So, After reading through all 47 pages and 934 post to this topic I committed to ordering the Tesla CCS adapter from Harumio, ordered the “bundle of wires” from some raptor dude on ebay . Just got notification from Ebay with tracking number, thank you.

I have a Late 2018 M3p

There is one thing I have a question about that you did with the charge port that I never saw a conclusion too. You ordered a replacement charge port with the internal heater. Did this ever get installed and what about the jumper harness you ordered?

Living in WI, we get serious sub-zero temps in winter. I had an issue with my charge port lock freezing in January. I scheduled a service visit to get it fixed by requesting to have the latest charge port with built in heater installed . When I checked out, I asked the service writer if the new port was heated, he said yes. However in the service invoice it said they only replaced the lock solenoid stating customer satisfaction ( warranty) $0.00. I’m questioning whether I actually got the heated port assembly. The CP ECU is the gen 3 P/N , HV harness is also Gen 3 according to P/N. (Note the Gen 3 HV harness doesn’t appear in M3 parts catalog) Just the Gen 4 P/N that I saw. I might have missed it though. I really wanted the heated port so my wife never has to deal with the issue I had last winter. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. @FalconFour

 

[ambudriver03]

I was able to get 184kw on a Electrify America station in Collegedale (Chattanooga), TN. Car was warmed using preconditioning for a while before going over there and I was a low SoC.

I did a bit of a drive last night.

Went to 2 different EA stations. First one I was at exactly 20% SoC and had pre-heated using a local super (it pre-heated for 20 mins).

Unfortunately right as I pulled into the 350 an ID4 plugged into the 350 stall adjacent and even though my battery was hot and drained, I couldn't get more than 183, charged the car from 20-50% in 10 mins. At 50% the car was still pulling 130kw.

So not bad.

I drove around another hundred miles across la, riverside and orange county, and pulled into the EA 350 station in Anaheim, and again there was a car next to me (bolt).

17%-50% took 9 mins, delivered 24kw and added 22.5.

These were on Signet 350kw 500A units.
Both delivered 490-497 Amps which is basically max power.

I was going to go try the EVgo 350s in long Beach or Cypress today, but it turns out I have Covid-19, so... No more testing for a week.

TLDR: Some EA stations are trashed, but you can get close to 190kw via CCS on them if your battery is hot and low

(Model 3 2019 build with about 12-13% degradation. Max pack voltage reported currently as 403v, max capacity 67kwh, full pack when new was 77kwh

 

[ambudriver03]

Here's a couple thermals from my FLIR PRO
The bottom of the adapter is cold, did not heat up on either session even when pushing close to 200kw. I was able to put my hand on the bottom of it, the charge port barrel seemed a little warm around 90, but as soon as I disconnected it was able to touch the DC pins and they weren't even warm.

 

[owlowlowlowl]

(Model 3 2019 build with about 12-13% degradation. Max pack voltage reported currently as 403v, max capacity 67kwh, full pack when new was 77kwh

Would you mind sharing which program/data/website shows you this information about your Tesla's current battery state? I've been using Stats for a couple of years, and I just started a trial with TeslaFi. Thank you.

TLDR: Some EA stations are trashed, but you can get close to 190kw via CCS on them if your battery is hot and low

I'm sorry to hear about the COVID.

On my 200mi drive back home this weekend, I stopped by an EA station in Los Banos, CA. I started on a 150kW station, since both 350kW stations were occupied. I couldn't force my car to do its pre-conditioning/pre-heating of the battery, even though I chose a Telsa supercharging station as my immediate next destination (it was about 10 mi past the EA charger), but I was driving at around 75mph for 60 miles, and the outside temps were around 90 degrees F.
- My car was able to pull a max charging speed of 146.36kWh (not bad!) at 19% SoC
- Just as I started to charge, an i3 drove off, so I moved over to the 350kW station. I pulled 46kWh in 29 minutes with a max charging rate of 187.40kW.
- Coming through the Bay Area, I stopped at a 62.5kW Chargepoint station (I forgot about the 500kW station at the Chargepoint HQ, but it seems to keep going out of service often); I started at 55% SoC and was able to get above 60kW for a good amount of time

I'm quite happy and impressed with the charging rates. The CCS network opens up a lot of nice shopping/eating options while getting fast charging rates.

 

[FalconFour]

There is one thing I have a question about that you did with the charge port that I never saw a conclusion too. You ordered a replacement charge port with the internal heater. Did this ever get installed and what about the jumper harness you ordered?

I ordered two charge ports, actually: one, the Gen4 port which revealed all "the answers" with a teardown & reverse-engineering session, and two, a newer-revision of a Gen3 charge port compatible with my car.

Short version: the Gen4 port has a heater, and never will be compatible with the Gen3 car. It connects to the battery in a fundamentally different/incompatible way. The Gen3 port (used in 2019+ I think), however, has no feature/signal differences from the older revision port I already have. It's manufactured in a completely different way, by a different company (possibly Tesla in-house?), but it's electrically identical - and also doesn't have a heater.

Longer/deeper dive:
Gen4 charge port:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1493830229730553856

And this post:

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Is it just me... or do those solar panels look like they have been installed upside down? I think they just have clear backings to make them look nicer.

teslamotorsclub.com

Gen3 charge port:
Early Gen3:

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Is it just me... or do those solar panels look like they have been installed upside down? I think they just have clear backings to make them look nicer.

teslamotorsclub.com

Late Gen3:

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Well, preliminary analysis was quick: it's the same bloody thing (identical in wiring to my Gen3 orange/encased/Yazaki? charge port). Just in yet another vastly different package that bears precisely zero similarities to my charge port in appearances. Tried to make the most info visible...

teslamotorsclub.com

(and the post before it on the previous page)

Oh, and as to that Tesla harness I ordered? It's just internal wiring that connects the Gen4 charge port to the (Gen4) ECU. Doesn't do me any good. Haven't even opened it. The service docs had all the info I needed, and that info worked, so it's just a cheap part that now sits in a box.

The Bundle of Wires that makes a Gen4 ECU work with a Gen3 ECU actually discards the port-heating pins - they go nowhere, but the ECU thinks there's a heater there. The problem is, there's no hardware in the port that could "heat", so there's nothing to connect to. The ECU also always thinks the port is hotter than it is (due to the thermistor issue, "patched" to a safety-functional degree with those resistors), so if it's 10F outside, it probably thinks the port is sitting happy at 60f. It wouldn't heat properly even if it could.

So as of now, there's no way (for Tesla or otherwise) to add a heater to a Gen3 charge port. Bring a cup of hot water!
Of course, everyone is challenged by the "you can't do that" / "watch me", but I mean: no straightforward way, no way a SC could have done it for you. Someone hacking up HV wires and making a mess of things, perhaps, could heat a port (maybe more than intended.... haha)

 

[ambudriver03]

@owlowlowlowl I installed teslafi the day after I took delivery, (took delivery at 4mi, and started data logging at mile 26).

It's possible to figure it out (degradation) using scan my tesla (looking at "full pack when new" vs "nominal full pack") and also on Teslafi though the way it maps it, is more based on range than battery capacity.

As far as I can tell my max voltage is still the same 403v though my max reported capacity is only 66 vs 77 when new.

(I get this data from ScanMyTesla which is reading the canbus data)