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Return of $7500 Federal Tax Credit?

elguapo

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
1,173
2,512
Maryland
Honestly, I think they raised the S and X in anticipation of buyers getting a 7,500 tax credit again but that’s the cynic in me. But yeah, I anticipate them raising the price of the cybertruck or at least making the pre-order packages unappealing enough to make you want to pay extra for upgrades. For example, it doesn’t say what we have pre-ordered has premium sound or interior or whatever. The 70k tri-motor cybertruck could be 100k once we select leather and premium interior or whatever other unknown packages they may throw at us.
I don’t get it. Why would the $7,500 be available again? If they do anything like that again, they will likely exclude cars over $100,000.
 
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C3XGarage

Member
Nov 15, 2017
108
72
California
I don’t get it. Why would the $7,500 be available again? If they do anything like that again, they will likely exclude cars over $100,000.
Not sure what language will be in the final bill but they didn’t limit to that last time (though they should have, maybe even 70k) and you can configure S and X below 100k
 

bayareaever

Member
Jun 17, 2013
413
255
East Bay Area
Not sure what language will be in the final bill but they didn’t limit to that last time (though they should have, maybe even 70k) and you can configure S and X below 100k

I’m hoping they make it refundable, that’s what would really help middle class people fully use it.

Cutting off the ~5% of high price Ev sales from the credit doesn’t make much sense,
But then again this is the govt were talking about.

It’s just a matter of time IMO before Biden brings back the credit-the details just aren’t known yet.

Does anybody know how the dems can modify it? Reconciliation? Executive order? Some other means?

Personally, I probably won’t be buying another ev until the details are clear. I’m sure many other people are in the same boat.
 

flar

Member
Apr 20, 2013
458
387
I'd rather that however they modify the rebate program, that it punish the slow players. Right now the early adopters run/ran out of credit before the slow adopters even lifted a finger. It should really be that you get the credit until there are at least N companies with EV lines that comprise at least X% of their sales for at least Y quarters in a row. Once there is actual competition, then the credit phases out over time for everyone (and returns if the players leave the market again).
 

C3XGarage

Member
Nov 15, 2017
108
72
California
I'd rather that however they modify the rebate program, that it punish the slow players. Right now the early adopters run/ran out of credit before the slow adopters even lifted a finger. It should really be that you get the credit until there are at least N companies with EV lines that comprise at least X% of their sales for at least Y quarters in a row. Once there is actual competition, then the credit phases out over time for everyone (and returns if the players leave the market again).
This is a great idea!
 
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Reactions: elguapo

elguapo

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
1,173
2,512
Maryland
I'd rather that however they modify the rebate program, that it punish the slow players. Right now the early adopters run/ran out of credit before the slow adopters even lifted a finger. It should really be that you get the credit until there are at least N companies with EV lines that comprise at least X% of their sales for at least Y quarters in a row. Once there is actual competition, then the credit phases out over time for everyone (and returns if the players leave the market again).
Great idea. If you’re 15 years late to the party, like many of these manufacturers, you shouldn’t get an advantage over the early one like Tesla. There would be no EV market were it not for Tesla, at this point. They can probably do it with corporate incentives though, not end user ones. The challenge is they shouldn’t be DISincentivizing any end buyer from buying an EV and they should keep the playing field level to end buyers.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
6,879
Canyon Lake,CA
With the Dems borrowing all the money for their stimulus, it is like paying people $ out of their own checkbooks.

All the Unemployment, tax credits, stimulus checks, increase in minimum wage etc will need to be repaid, with interest, by the next generation.

Bailing out states with Federal $ is simply moving the debt from one account to another

Current administration will be out of power before the bill comes due.

People are happy to recieve all this money right now, but give little thought of how it will be paid back.

Even a drunken Sailor needs to sober up sometime :)
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,654
3,817
USA
I don’t get it. Why would the $7,500 be available again? If they do anything like that again, they will likely exclude cars over $100,000.
It would not. Because the overwhelming majority of the country doesn’t feel like paying for rich peoples toys.

Frankly, they should be excluding all vehicles over $40K. If you want a Tesla, buy one with your own money.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
6,879
Canyon Lake,CA
Frankly, nobody likes paying for someone elses vehicles. The government gives tax credits to encourage citizens to buy less polluting vehicles. This gives the government less money to pay for other things, or increases debt.

Government gives homeowners tax breaks, business owners tax brakes, charity donors tax breaks. The number of tax breaks they give people is many pages long. They do this to incentivize certain behavior.

Rich people will want tax credits for rich people. Poor people will want government programs for poor people (like free cell phones, food stamps, subsidized rents, food banks, free cheese programs, shelter during storms, homeless shelters, free clinics, free abortions, SNAP cards EBT cards, welfare etc.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
385
543
California
With the Dems borrowing all the money for their stimulus, it is like paying people $ out of their own checkbooks.

All the Unemployment, tax credits, stimulus checks, increase in minimum wage etc will need to be repaid, with interest, by the next generation.

Bailing out states with Federal $ is simply moving the debt from one account to another

Current administration will be out of power before the bill comes due.

People are happy to recieve all this money right now, but give little thought of how it will be paid back.

Even a drunken Sailor needs to sober up sometime :)

Repeal the Trump tax cuts. There's the $2 trillion to pay for this.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
385
543
California
It would not. Because the overwhelming majority of the country doesn’t feel like paying for rich peoples toys.

Frankly, they should be excluding all vehicles over $40K. If you want a Tesla, buy one with your own money.

Except they are not all "rich" peoples toys. BEV's are in fact more expensive than ICE vehicles. TO get the price lower to help the "poorer" people, you need to "juice" the industry. Thus, you need the "rich" people for the seed money. Some will do it for the environment but others need a financial push. It benefits society to advance BEV's as quickly as possible AND get the pricing down so if it more affordable for more people. It is being penny wise and pounds foolish to limit the tax breaks to price of car or income of person. If you are giving a $7500 tax break to a millionaire to buy a $100K BEV so what. It helps the cause. And he is still paying a lot of tax on that purchase and if that is his income he his already paying a lot of tax. Better course would be to have a more progressive tax structure and tighten up inheritance tax - if you really want to benefit society.
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,654
3,817
USA
Except they are not all "rich" peoples toys. BEV's are in fact more expensive than ICE vehicles. TO get the price lower to help the "poorer" people, you need to "juice" the industry. Thus, you need the "rich" people for the seed money. Some will do it for the environment but others need a financial push. It benefits society to advance BEV's as quickly as possible AND get the pricing down so if it more affordable for more people. It is being penny wise and pounds foolish to limit the tax breaks to price of car or income of person. If you are giving a $7500 tax break to a millionaire to buy a $100K BEV so what. It helps the cause. And he is still paying a lot of tax on that purchase and if that is his income he his already paying a lot of tax. Better course would be to have a more progressive tax structure and tighten up inheritance tax - if you really want to benefit society.
We are beyond that point with Tesla. Sales were increased with the original credit and since it ran out, Tesla lowered their prices accordingly.

The incentive worked, now the free money party is over.
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,816
2,534
United States
Frankly, nobody likes paying for someone elses vehicles. The government gives tax credits to encourage citizens to buy less polluting vehicles. This gives the government less money to pay for other things, or increases debt.

Government gives homeowners tax breaks, business owners tax brakes, charity donors tax breaks. The number of tax breaks they give people is many pages long. They do this to incentivize certain behavior.

Rich people will want tax credits for rich people. Poor people will want government programs for poor people (like free cell phones, food stamps, subsidized rents, food banks, free cheese programs, shelter during storms, homeless shelters, free clinics, free abortions, SNAP cards EBT cards, welfare etc.

Odd how here we find next to zero discussion here on the TRILLIONS of dollars in tax breaks for oil and gas over the past century....

We must have near 100% EV sales ASAP if we’re to have a useable planet, so let’s follow the leader: Norway.

Gee, maybe we could learn something from them?

How did they get such high EV sales so quickly?

Hmmmmm.
 

Beltsbear

Active Member
Jan 1, 2016
1,053
5,973
Dc
The simpler the better. My personal opinion? The bill should have zero price cap limits, zero production limits and be dropped to $5000. It should apply to any vehicle with 150 epa miles or more of electric range. It should start at a known date soon in the future and not be retroactive. This would save the budget money and encourage adoption. If it had a multi-year horizon, it might encourage Tesla to build more production then even is planned in the USA.
 

tivoboy

Active Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,592
3,387
palo alto, ca
If you read the bill being proposed now by the house, I’m not sure Tesla buyers would still have access to this new $7000 tax credit, since they have to be well beyond 600K overall sales of EV.. GM would re-quality, but not Tesla. They MIGHT re-open the additional 400K sales to Tesla but that could disenfranchise the original 200,001-600,000 buyers who missed out on the tax credit (although did receive a lower price point). What will be really interesting to see though is, if EV companies, Tesla and GM RAISE prices back up to compensate for the buyer now getting a $7000 tax credit again. At this point that would be so obvious and sneaky.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,761
7,971
Maine
If you read the bill being proposed now by the house, I’m not sure Tesla buyers would still have access to this new $7000 tax credit, since they have to be well beyond 600K overall sales of EV.. GM would re-quality, but not Tesla. They MIGHT re-open the additional 400K sales to Tesla but that could disenfranchise the original 200,001-600,000 buyers who missed out on the tax credit (although did receive a lower price point). What will be really interesting to see though is, if EV companies, Tesla and GM RAISE prices back up to compensate for the buyer now getting a $7000 tax credit again. At this point that would be so obvious and sneaky.


I'm sure that the Bolt's $8500 rebates will disappear.

The 400,000 limit will help GM and Nissan (hence the TN sponsor), and hurt Tesla, when what they really need to be doing is to make it apply only to vehicles manufactured in the USA, before there's a flood of Chinese EVs.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,673
4,742
San Francisco
Good news:

Tesla to gain access to 400k more $7k EV tax credits amid Biden's sustainability push

The bill also extends existing tax incentives available for the sale of electric vehicles. The bill increases the electric vehicle credit cap for manufacturers to 600,000 vehicles, but reduces the credit by $500 after the first 200,000 vehicles sold. This would replace the current phaseout period that begins with 200,000 vehicles sold, with a phaseout period that instead begins during the second calendar quarter after the 600,000-vehicle threshold is reached.

At the start of the new phaseout period created under the bill, the credit is reduced by 50 percent for one calendar quarter and subsequently ends. For manufacturers that already passed the 200,000 threshold before the enactment of the bill, the number of vehicles sold in between 200,000 and those sold on the date of enactment are excluded in determining when the 600,000 threshold is reached.
 

jeffcole

Member
Jan 27, 2021
30
20
Florida
With the Dems borrowing all the money for their stimulus, it is like paying people $ out of their own checkbooks.

All the Unemployment, tax credits, stimulus checks, increase in minimum wage etc will need to be repaid, with interest, by the next generation.

Bailing out states with Federal $ is simply moving the debt from one account to another

Current administration will be out of power before the bill comes due.

People are happy to recieve all this money right now, but give little thought of how it will be paid back.

Even a drunken Sailor needs to sober up sometime :)
That’s not how any of that works lol it’s not due to anyone. Theyre borrowing their own money. The only thing that happens is possible inflation.
 

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