Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]

[derekmw]

Have you been to any non-Tesla EV forums? There are a lot of customers out there who will never buy a Tesla. Ever. And it's because of Tesla's reputation for poor build quality, crap service, and a lunatic CEO. Those who say reputation doesn't matter are in for a big surprise as Tesla loses orders and finds many cancellations on its hands. It's already happening.

After 4 Tesla's, I'm now in a Rivian, with no 'devotion' to Tesla, but I will say, I still find much value in Tesla's and have no problem owning another one again in the future. I actually have another Model 3 on order, waiting to see what will shake out after the new year.

I can't imagine I'm in the minority. Tesla's have a LOT of positives. The few negatives we've had over the years (owning Tesla's since 2015) are not enough to make me not want to own another one. I have the exact same problems with build quality I've had in my Tesla's in my new Rivian. Maybe my standards just got lower after the years of owning Tesla's. lol

 

[AmpedRealtor]

A collapsing used car market is going to kill the equity folks have in their current vehicles.

Fortunately, the equity people had was inflated. So it's just coming back down to where it was before.

People aren't holding out for the tax credit. It's the loan rates, and it's always been the loan rates. The cheap money party where everyone can dive into his or her own personal scrooge mcduck vault at will is finally coming to a sticky end after more than 10 years.

No, it's not the interest rates. Have you actually done the math? The payment difference on 5-year $50,000 loan at 1.99% versus today's market rate of 4.25% is only $50/mo. That's not going to break anyone's bank. And if you shop around you can find credit unions still financing at 1.99-2.99%. The interest rates are a convenient misdirection for the tidal wave of order cancellations Tesla has received.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The usefulness of the Supercharger network is overstated, in my opinion. Even with the fastest supercharger on the fastest-charging Tesla, charge stops still add at least 20% to the travel time. That's an absurd proposition. Fly instead!

I think you mean drive to an airport, fly, maybe fly again, maybe fly again and then rent a car. If you buy anything significant, pay to ship it home and hope it doesn't get broken.
Then head back, pay for parking and pick up your vehicle.

Having had two vacations this year where flying would either have sucked or been hilarious long and expensive, your post made me chuckle.

Oh, we also had a failed vacation when a flight was canceled. Your own car is very unlikely to get canceled.

In May we drove to Pittsburgh, where we stayed a night, and then headed to West Virginia. (ate plan due to the aforementioned canceled flight, thought we were going to a charging desert so no Kona. I guess we could have flown twice and rented two cars.

In July we went to Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island. Kona electric. 50kW chargers all the way.

We live in Central Maine. If you want to a good laugh, check out flying from Maine airports to Charlottetown (which is only a 400-odd mile drive from Central Maine and also remember that we have to drive an hour or more to get to the major airports.

For both of those vacations, Tesla + Supercharger network would have been incredibly easy. Not as easy as a gasoline vehicle, but way easier than flying.

I look forward to charging networks figuring out what chargers not to buy, and plug-and-charge being the norm.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I think you mean drive to an airport, fly, maybe fly again, maybe fly again and then rent a car. If you buy anything significant, pay to ship it home and hope it doesn't get broken.
Then head back, pay for parking and pick up your vehicle.

Having had two vacations this year where flying would either have sucked or been hilarious long and expensive, your post made me chuckle.

Oh, we also had a failed vacation when a flight was canceled. Your own car is very unlikely to get canceled.

In May we drove to Pittsburgh, where we stayed a night, and then headed to West Virginia. (ate plan due to the aforementioned canceled flight, thought we were going to a charging desert so no Kona. I guess we could have flown twice and rented two cars.

In July we went to Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island. Kona electric. 50kW chargers all the way.

We live in Central Maine. If you want to a good laugh, check out flying from Maine airports to Charlottetown (which is only a 400-odd mile drive from Central Maine and also remember that we have to drive an hour or more to get to the major airports.

For both of those vacations, Tesla + Supercharger network would have been incredibly easy. Not as easy as a gasoline vehicle, but way easier than flying.

I look forward to charging networks figuring out what chargers not to buy, and plug-and-charge being the norm.

One can always find travel situations that fit one scenario and not the other. In my case driving would make zero sense and be quite frustrating. Even when I drove ICE I would rarely take road trips instead of flying. Different strokes and not at all a reason to keep me tied to Tesla when there are so many better, nicer EVs on the market today that go just as far on a charge.

 

[randmness]

Fortunately, the equity people had was inflated. So it's just coming back down to where it was before.

I think it will potentially get worse than before. Carvana (and others) are essentially on the verge of bankruptcy so there will likely be large influx of vehicles on the wholesale market. Most trade-ins are actually sold at auction, but cars are sitting at auction due to dealers having funds tied up in existing inflated (frankly un-sellable at current prices) inventory. I imagine we're going to see some dealerships close entirely. The used/wholesale car market is dropping fast, but this hasnt resulted in dramatic changes to the retail market....yet. The wholesale market is usually a good indicator for what will happen in retail, but we shall see how things evolve.

No, it's not the interest rates. Have you actually done the math? The payment difference on 5-year $50,000 loan at 1.99% versus today's market rate of 4.25% is only $50/mo.

The average car interest rate for new cars is only 5%, but it is nearly 10% for used cars (and moving higher for both.) With the avg car loan being 72 months, the additional interest alone (between 2 and 5%) is roughly $6K on a $60K car (where Tesla's most popular cars sit.)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The average car interest rate for new cars is only 5%, but it is nearly 10% for used cars (and moving higher for both.) With the avg car loan being 72 months, the additional interest alone (between 2 and 5%) is roughly $6K on a $60K car (where Tesla's most popular cars sit.)

The credit unions I've surveyed have used car rates comparable to their new vehicle rates, or just very slightly higher. Yes, the overall interest one is paying is important, but I believe for most Model 3/Y buyers it is the monthly payment that is most important. $50/mo is a few less unnecessary Staryucks every month. Done! That's why I think interest rate is an easy go-to when the practical difference is very little on a monthly basis.

I sold my car earlier in the year so I'm mostly affected by the higher interest rates. I just found a CU doing 2.99% on a 5-year so am stocked!

 

[ElectricIAC]

Tesla is experiencing a tidal wave of cancellations right now because the tax credit kicks-in in less than 3 weeks. Who would want to take delivery now? That's why Tesla is offering $3,750 off on every 3/Y being delivered this month. Customers are still leaving $3,750 on the table, though, and it's a rotten deal for anyone with at least $7,500 in tax liability.

Yeah but if you don’t meet the income caps then 3750 is better than zero

 

[Fits]

I fear the -show of independent charging networks risks a backlash against EV adoption. The general public won't be as patient as EV enthusiasts like us.

The beginning of this video sums up my experience with the charging in the states.

Audi Q4 Review 3:00 timestamp

 

[Mash]

Yeah I know. They are reportedly re-designing the car. They could conceivably redesign the frunk area to accommodate a larger or different shape filter. My comment about other HEPA filters wasn’t about the ones designed for the current model 3 filter slot. It was about HEPA filters in general in the world. Just because the filter they currently have in the S/X/Y isn’t the right size or shape for the current model 3 frunk area doesn’t mean they couldn’t solve this with the new design.

I doubt that they can.

Tesla doesn't care about user feedback, at least not anymore. They produce what they think will sell and what the designers and commanders in chief want or think consumers want, particularly new/first-time consumers.

It hasnt hit them yet to think about retention with so many lining up for a fix.

I don't think so. Yoke gets more hate than anything else from Tesla. How many people who have it hate it? Minority.

There were a lot of reasons to do it on new Model S. It's not great implementation. No variable steering ratio, honk is not activated by airbag button, removal of stalks was questionable. But they had to try. And yoke alone brought more attention to Tesla and made sales than people who actually decided not to buy Tesla altogether.

I doubt that mandatory yoke would be on Model 3/Y. I even more doubt that yoke would appear with same flaws on other platforms. And I know for a fact that Tesla listens a lot. It just doesn't mean Tesla business goals align with your personal goals. It's also doesn't mean they don't do mistakes.

Saying that Tesla is unaware of retention and brand loyalty KPIs is just a silly joke.

 

[Mash]

This pic is a perfect example that the inside display is superior to outside mirror. I would much rather have that super clear screen image than have to look at an outside mirror through that rain-spattered window. The outside mirror on the other side (left on this right hand drive car) is even harder to see. Changing lanes in the rain can be very dangerous if there is no clear view of the lane. It’s worse at night in the rain or snow.

It's still very hard to make comparable level of usability with cameras as with mirrors in all conditions. Tesla already has side view cameras and at night, during muddy rain they are useless, while mirrors still do the job. Also it's very hard to make 3d picture with a camera and substitute ability to shift what is in the mirror by moving your head.

 

[Mash]

Tesla cannot survive without repeat purchases. If Elon Musk thinks Tesla's reputation (which is already ruined, btw) doesn't matter he's in for a rude awakening. He sure is the dumbest genius I've ever followed. The most basic concepts escape his low IQ.


I sold my S and am waiting on a brand new BMW iX that is currently en-route from Germany! We are so excited to never have to deal with the Tesla bull crap ever again!


The usefulness of the Supercharger network is overstated, in my opinion. Even with the fastest supercharger on the fastest-charging Tesla, charge stops still add at least 20% to the travel time. That's an absurd proposition. Fly instead!


This is a non-issue for me. The vast majority of American car buyers drive less than 100 miles per day—most under 50 miles per day. The vast majority of American car owners do not engage in long-range road-tripping.


I find this type of response typical of those who cannot engage in factual comparisons when those comparisons don't look good for Tesla.


Let Tesla lose out. At some point the Board of Directors needs to realize that Musk cannot be allowed to make such decisions based on his concept of what is "cool" or "killer" or "hardcore" or whatever moronic, superficial adjective he chooses to use that day.


Go to any non-Tesla EV forum and you will quickly see that Tesla has a major customer retention and brand image problem. Elon, not being particularly intelligent about the basic things, has no hope of picking up on this.

I suggest a therapy.

P.S. I'm not sarcastic at all.

 

[Bucs Town]

One can always find travel situations that fit one scenario and not the other. In my case driving would make zero sense and be quite frustrating. Even when I drove ICE I would rarely take road trips instead of flying. Different strokes and not at all a reason to keep me tied to Tesla when there are so many better, nicer EVs on the market today that go just as far on a char

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Yeah but if you don’t meet the income caps then 3750 is better than zero

On this extremely overpriced car, yes it is.

I suggest a therapy.

P.S. I'm not sarcastic at all.

I'm actually here to give therapy to you and the rest. Much needed honestly and reality for all the cult members.

 

[gglockner]

Yeah but if you don’t meet the income caps then 3750 is better than zero

And this is why I took delivery of a M3P last week instead of waiting until May. Even with some extra costs from the earlier date, it was a significant savings for me.

 

[Fits]

And this is why I took delivery of a M3P last week instead of waiting until May. Even with some extra costs from the earlier date, it was a significant savings for me.

how is the suspension on the M3P? I read about the higher ride height, its is comfortable?

 

[gglockner]

how is the suspension on the M3P? I read about the higher ride height, its is comfortable?

My wife and I are digging it. Compared to the MXLR, it's very low - serious go-kart vibe.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

My wife and I are digging it. Compared to the MXLR, it's very low - serious go-kart vibe.

probably fine in WA state ... here in North Texas the owner group on FB is full with near daily postings about bend/cracked wheels and busted tires. Nearly always a performance model with large wheels and tiny sidewall performance tires... the potholes here eat those up. the 18" aerowheels and larger sidewall stock tires are much more forgiving.

 

[Apprunner]

probably fine in WA state ... here in North Texas the owner group on FB is full with near daily postings about bend/cracked wheels and busted tires. Nearly always a performance model with large wheels and tiny sidewall performance tires... the potholes here eat those up. the 18" aerowheels and larger sidewall stock tires are much more forgiving.

I have a 2019 M3P with the stiffer suspension and went through a couple tires by hitting some nasty potholes. I went to 18 inch wheels and have hit some nasty potholes but the tires / wheels took it like a champ...pretty sure it would have obliterated by 20s. It feels like there is almost no downside to switching to 18s vs. the 20s. Best "mod" i've done to my car.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I have a 2019 M3P with the stiffer suspension and went through a couple tires by hitting some nasty potholes. I went to 18 inch wheels and have hit some nasty potholes but the tires / wheels took it like a champ...pretty sure it would have obliterated by 20s. It feels like there is almost no downside to switching to 18s vs. the 20s. Best "mod" i've done to my car.

Plus you likely have better range now too.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Plus you likely have better range now too.

better range, better ride comfort, more durable against potholes and cheaper tires.... only wins IMHO