Maybe it will be Tesla's first usage of LMFP batteries; that's been rumored for a while. They're supposed to have 25% greater energy storage than LFP.
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Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]
- Thread starter 3sr+buyer
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You actually think SAs have information that isn't readily available on your Google machine?
With the exception of telling you when your vehicle will be delivered they don't know a whole lot--and they're wrong about the delivery dates quite frequently, as well.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
SA's are typically less well informed than the internet... I would put zero confidence in the "LFP" claim. No one has had LFP anywhere near 325 miles for the size pack in the model 3
I think the most likely thing is simply swapping supplier of NMC cells away from Panasonic due to supply/cost reasons.
Second idea is a modified NMC chemistry that reduces costs at a small hit to energy density.
Third idea is they are pulling rare-earth metals out of the motors for a significant cost and import savings but at a tiny hit to efficiency
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Warranty varies by model (source)
- S: 8 years, 150K miles
- 3 RWD: 8 years, 100K miles
- 3 All others: 8 years, 120K miles
- X: 8 years, 150K miles
- Y: 8 years, 120K miles
Solidstate batteries are what to wish for. LFP is the bang for the buck solution for now.
Solid state refers to the electrolyte, which is the medium transmitting lithium ions from anode to cathode, or sometimes separator. The advantage of solid state electrolyte is safety, and potentially energy density if it permits a lithium metal anode without dendrites which usually form. The downside is worse performance in cold temperatures and higher cost. And maybe longevity if it breaks down from mechanisms we don't know now.
There is no relation to the cathode.
At the moment, I think the Panasonic NCA batteries are still the best, highest energy density, proven reliability, especially if you keep your state of charge low on average. See the long long long set of threads on the battery subboards.
I think it's very likely the new 3LRs are using the LG NCM packs which have been used in China. The energy difference matches the range difference. It's the simplest case that 3LRs now being built in Fremont use a proven pack that 3LR's built in Shanghai have been using. Any other change would need validation work and testing---they can't take the risk of a huge recall on packs if they turn out to have some problem in real use.
Yes this is much more likely and fits much better with the range difference than any version of lfp chemistry. Lfp to get to 325 plus miles would require a larger battery pack which is extremely unlikely.
It's good the Tesla at least cares about this stuff. And irrespective of Cobalt's association with the abuses of the drc, for sure from a cost standpoint lfp looks like a no-brainer. Until we get better chemistries anyway
Probably.
And then it will lower them.
And then increase them again.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
HTH,
a
They shouldn't as they are looking to save money manufactring them. Maybe the extra cameras will raise the price a bit
pdx_m3s
Active Member
I would be very surprised if they didn't raise the price in connection with the refresh.
I doubt it although clearly predicting what Tesla is going to do in relationship to prices seems like a crapshoot. In any case it makes little sense that they're doing this entire Highland project to significantly streamline manufacturing, the point of which is to materially cut costs, so that they can raise prices. It's much more likely that they are trying to drive increased demand through these efficiencies, allowing a profit margin that is still decent on a reduced price car that is easier to make.
Needless to say, but important to consider, no one is in a position to follow them down this particular trajectory. Everybody else is losing money except for byd on their electric vehicle lines. And byd is not making anything like $9,000 a unit as far as we know.
Any other storyline it seems to me goes against Tesla memes and recent trends. That of course is the whole idea behind the gigacastings, the structural battery pack, a new motor without expensive rare earth metals, etc etc etc. Tesla is showing the entire industry that they not only know how to make vehicles with slightly more range and slightly better performance at almost any given price point, but they are driving manufacturing efficiencies and improvements at a scary rate. Or at least it's scary from the standpoint of the Legacy automakers having any chance at all to catch Tesla. Ford is hemorrhaging money on the Mach e, GM just discontinued their biggest seller and can't make more than two Hummers in the last quarter and everybody else is struggling to scale up.
Again in that context I think Tesla sees an opportunity to blow everybody out of the water by cutting the price through streamlined Manufacturing on their two big sellers. Don't see anything that's going to materially reverse that overall trend. Rather than the competition coming for Tesla I think bankruptcy is coming to the competition. Which may not be necessarily a great thing for the industry in the long term, as competition is certainly good for just about everybody, but that's what it looks like.
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This looks cool
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