Revamp EAP + FSD Purchase Terms?

[K-MTG]

Since all new Tesla's contain the hardware for self driving - why doesn't Tesla treat EAP/FSD as software? For instance, wouldn't it be much better if Tesla tied EAP/FSD with the owner instead of the car?

What if I can go to MyTesla and purchase EAP/FSD and tie the license to my car, when I sell the car I have the decision to transfer it to the new owner or transfer it to my new Tesla.

In the current system, if my Tesla gets totaled and I purchase EAP/FSD after delivery - I am essentially paying $10k for software that I don't own anymore. It's like buying Adobe's Master-Collection and having my computer crash and rebuying the software on my replacement computer. And also I assume insurance wouldn't even cover the cost of EAP/FSD if it is purchased after delivery....am I correct??

And if Tesla is concern that an owner with two cars will constantly transfer EAP/FSD between his/her Tesla's...they can limit that you can only transfer the license once every 30 days.

What do you guys think? Perhaps we can reach out to @JonMc to provide some insight about this.

 

[Winnie168]

Good idea. I hope corporate is reading this.

 

[phaduman]

I made a change in my company to decouole software licensing from the gear/box/hardware, to the customer. This also helped with license pooling, RMA, and above all customer satisfaction - also gave control to customer through a portal to pull license from any box and push to another without calling us. Reduced our license related support costs.

Issue? Reduced revenue for us...the licenses could now potentially live “forever”, even after the HW dies. So we r in the process of introducing all licenses as SAAS model, no perpetual licenses. Pay as you use model.

So why not have EAP/FSD tied to an annual subscription? I know cars have been tied to he feel of “perpetual”, but we should consider these software features like leases, like subscriptions.

 

[K-MTG]

I made a change in my company to decouole software licensing from the gear/box/hardware, to the customer. This also helped with license pooling, RMA, and above all customer satisfaction - also gave control to customer through a portal to pull license from any box and push to another without calling us. Reduced our license related support costs.

Issue? Reduced revenue for us...the licenses could now potentially live “forever”, even after the HW dies. So we r in the process of introducing all licenses as SAAS model, no perpetual licenses. Pay as you use model.

So why not have EAP/FSD tied to an annual subscription? I know cars have been tied to he feel of “perpetual”, but we should consider these software features like leases, like subscriptions.

That's an interesting idea...wouldn't mind paying $30 per month

 

[phaduman]

That's an interesting idea...wouldn't mind paying $30 per month

Yep. I would support that too. Introduce both monthly as well as a few longer-terms like 1/3/5yrs. Those who are ready to commit to a 3 or 5yr term, the pricing should be cheaper.

Even introduce a perhaps expensive “day” license so someone going on a long trip can utilize EAP for those days/week.

 

[whitex]

Since all new Tesla's contain the hardware for self driving - why doesn't Tesla treat EAP/FSD as software? For instance, wouldn't it be much better if Tesla tied EAP/FSD with the owner instead of the car?

What if I can go to MyTesla and purchase EAP/FSD and tie the license to my car, when I sell the car I have the decision to transfer it to the new owner or transfer it to my new Tesla.

In the current system, if my Tesla gets totaled and I purchase EAP/FSD after delivery - I am essentially paying $10k for software that I don't own anymore. It's like buying Adobe's Master-Collection and having my computer crash and rebuying the software on my replacement computer. And also I assume insurance wouldn't even cover the cost of EAP/FSD if it is purchased after delivery....am I correct??

And if Tesla is concern that an owner with two cars will constantly transfer EAP/FSD between his/her Tesla's...they can limit that you can only transfer the license once every 30 days.

What do you guys think? Perhaps we can reach out to @JonMc to provide some insight about this.

@phaduman hit the nail on the head - perpetual licenses don't provide additional revenue to fund development and updates. If I bought Microsoft Office 95, should Microsoft make sure that it still runs on latest PC's 22 years later? Or should they be giving me free license for Office 2016? If either way, they got no money for maintaining/updating Office 95 for 22 years, or for developing Office 2016. While it is possible to calculate how much such a "perpetual license" would cost, I doubt it would be something customers would pay for. For example, if this license is truly made to live forever, so you can pass it onto your grandkids to use, then EAP/FSD may have to cost $150,000. Would you pay that price for it?

 

[K-MTG]

@phaduman hit the nail on the head - perpetual licenses don't provide additional revenue to fund development and updates. If I bought Microsoft Office 95, should Microsoft make sure that it still runs on latest PC's 22 years later? Or should they be giving me free license for Office 2016? If either way, they got no money for maintaining/updating Office 95 for 22 years, or for developing Office 2016. While it is possible to calculate how much such a "perpetual license" would cost, I doubt it would be something customers would pay for. For example, if this license is truly made to live forever, so you can pass it onto your grandkids to use, then EAP/FSD may have to cost $150,000. Would you pay that price for it?

$5000 for 10 years...$40 per month...reasonable to me

 

[YNOT3]

super annoying on a 3 year lease too. buying this software that doesn't depreciate, but paying for 100% depreciation.

 

[bob_p]

Another change - the 4 year warranty clock shouldn't start until EAP has been activated.

The same should be true for FSD - if FSD is purchased, then the AP hardware warranty shouldn't start until FSD is activated.

Since Tesla shouldn't be able to book the revenue for EAP or FSD until those features are activated, it's not unreasonable that the warranty on the hardware be extended so the owner will have the full warranty for these features - once they are activated.

Of course, if EAP/FSD are transferrable to another car, that would be different. Though I expect that once these features are operational, and other manufacturers start including them - it's likely the cost will drop and/or the features will be included as standard features.

 

[MagicMagicD]

A agree a SAAS model would work better for EAP/FSD as it stands but given the current cost of the feature, I expect they'd want at least $80-100 a month rather than $30-40. I'm not sure how many owners do/don't opt for EAP/FSD at present but I imagine that a large percentage go for EAP, so there's little reason for them to effectively drop the price.

In the long term, Tesla's stated goal is full autonomy and no need for drivers so I would imagine that they will make EAP/FSD standard at some point, though it's likely to be quite a while given the current state of development.

 

[whitex]

Another change - the 4 year warranty clock shouldn't start until EAP has been activated.

The same should be true for FSD - if FSD is purchased, then the AP hardware warranty shouldn't start until FSD is activated.

Since Tesla shouldn't be able to book the revenue for EAP or FSD until those features are activated, it's not unreasonable that the warranty on the hardware be extended so the owner will have the full warranty for these features - once they are activated.

Of course, if EAP/FSD are transferrable to another car, that would be different. Though I expect that once these features are operational, and other manufacturers start including them - it's likely the cost will drop and/or the features will be included as standard features.

LOL, I tried that approach when buying our last Model S - I offered to purchase EAP+FSD if Tesla would extend the bumper to bumper warranty until 6 months after FSD is fully functional (simple test - the car drops me off at the airport, goes home to park, comes gets me a week later). They wouldn't do it of course, so we skipped it (EAP did nothing, already have AP1 and wouldn't pay $5K for just AP). Will happily give Tesla $10K to unlock FSD when it's ready, assuming I still have the car and it's still in driving condition.

 

[zambono]

That's an interesting idea...wouldn't mind paying $30 per month

It would help with the whole paying for something that doesn't work, thats for sure. But then Tesla wouldn't have all this extra $ for no reason they have been milking from buyers.

 

[K-MTG]

It would help with the whole paying for something that doesn't work, thats for sure. But then Tesla wouldn't have all this extra $ for no reason they have been milking from buyers.

Maybe they can do both...like Plex Pass. Either a monthly subscription or a lifetime

 

[whitex]

Maybe they can do both...like Plex Pass. Either a monthly subscription or a lifetime

Lifetime of the car, maybe. The OP wanted lifetime of the universe (i.e. transferable to new cars without restrictions).

On the other hand, how many people do you think would be paying Tesla monthly for FSD today (or for the last year)? Not many I suspect care to pay just to be able to say they are paying for it.