Reverse instead of Drive by Mistake?

[Transformer]

I have often found that alot of these human factor errors of assuming an incorrect state can be resolved by better communication method as to the state of the machine/process/etc... An example in this case would be a clearer distinction possibly a more prominent display of the current state of AP.

Agreed, and also the current gear.

@PianoAl raised a good question and a proposed answer, namely, a practice that avoids the situation. Another would be making a practice to check the AP and gear state when you're stopped and intend to turn off AP. (And if we installed something like the S3XY button display, that info would be right in front.)

 

[Timbo2]

I don't disagree with the human factors here and never cared for all the stalk juggling.

My solution is to use the brake pedal to deactivate recognizing you don’t want to be inconsiderate to following traffic. But usually a brief brake tap is not problematic.

 

[parrainx]

Part of the issue is that you press the stalk down to get into drive, and then you do the exact same thing to enable autopilot (same for reverse / disengage).

Going past detent to shift into drive is not the same as a soft double press to enter AP.

I’m sure it would be fairly doable for Tesla to make the available to us controls be configurable to different things like switching volume scroll to right wheel or whatever, but I definitely do not want them to reinvent the wheel to accommodate the confused.

All other manufacturers aren’t exactly following a standard either. I have other cars American, Japanese, British, Automatic, Manual, Left Hand Drive, Right Hand Drive, FWD, RWD, AWD, Large, Tiny, from 1968 to 2022. I guess some people adapt to change in environment easier that others.

 

[derotam]

I understand the point about the new thread here, but I will make a couple comments on that piece of it.

1. This OP is not a brand new user / account who joined here simply to make this point. They are an active member of TMC, both in time and number of posts.

2. The OPs first post doesnt attempt to hide or other minimize their actions in this thread. Its clear that they mentioned it was their fault, but wanted to discuss what could possibly be done to minimize human error in this case.

I saw this as a regular member here having a discussion with peers they hang out with about something that happened to them, vs some other threads where its pretty obvious that people are here to troll, etc. This isnt that, just a "having a discussion at a coffee shop / bar" type thread, at least to me.


I said this earlier in the thread I think, but all sorts of businesses try very hard to minimize the "human factor / human error" when dealing with processes, since we are so very good at making those errors. The discussion isnt "hey this happend" or "learn how to use the car better", because accidents are accidents as someone does something unintended. Its "is there a way to do this that minimizes this or removes this as a possibility?

Im not a human factors expert (although I wouldnt be surprised if we have at least one or two on TMC somewhere) so I cant make any suggestions on what might or might not be better, but this isnt a case of "abuse" like people sitting in the back seat while AP is on or something. Frankly I dont GAF about those people other than to be sorry for anyone they interact with on the road.

This is more about something that is fairly easy for someone to do by mistake, and could something be done better by tesla to prevent that... at least thats how I see it.

I think the issue I have is that in my opinion, the OP created a generic complaint post with no question, then they even related AND LINKED to other threads that they believe are similar or the same.

My input to the discussion id that their scenario seems to be a classic generic user error by way of not remembering what state THEY had the car in. I don't think the car did anything to change the state the user put it in and then not provide an appropriate feedback mechanism to alert the user. To knock out of AP requires a HALF up-stalk and to go into reverse requires a FULL up-stalk. So in regards to the OP suggesting Tesla limit mode error issues, they already have to an extent. Yes there was mode error, but there was a core user failure in SA that caused them to make the mode error. The car and how it is set up didn't cause the issue.

 

[FastEddieB]

I’m 73, and have observed in myself and others of my vintage something I’ve labeled “Mature Onset Dyslexia”. Basically, it involves occasionally getting things backwards, usually like left vs right, east vs west, that sort of thing.

And so, I’ve observed myself on rare occasion inadvertently pushing the stalk and getting D when I meant R, or vice versa. I catch it immediately, but I’m more understanding of older folks mixing up gas vs brake and panicking. It’s not a matter of not understanding the tech, but just a minor brain fart.

 

[3sr+buyer]

All other manufacturers aren’t exactly following a standard either. I have other cars American, Japanese, British, Automatic, Manual, Left Hand Drive, Right Hand Drive, FWD, RWD, AWD, Large, Tiny, from 1968 to 2022. I guess some people adapt to change in environment easier that others.

Main difference with other vehicle companies is that they tend to avoid overloading the same control with unrelated functions. For example, cruise control is generally its own control buttons or whatever, rather than using the gear selector the same way that one selects a gear.

Most of the time, the overloading of functions on the shift / cruise stalk is unambiguous, but this thread is about an edge case where there is some ambiguity.

 

[parrainx]

Main difference with other vehicle companies is that they tend to avoid overloading the same control with unrelated functions. For example, cruise control is generally its own control buttons or whatever, rather than using the gear selector the same way that one selects a gear.

Most of the time, the overloading of functions on the shift / cruise stalk is unambiguous, but this thread is about an edge case where there is some ambiguity.

True. I’m a minimalist, so I welcome the simplicity and lack of buttons vs for example my wife’s ‘17 Volt with buttons and convoluted dashboard with all the unnecessary shapes that don’t add anything just make it complicated to clean. Owning a Tesla made it even harder to look at.

 

[PianoAl]

Guess I'm not the only one to do this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661860867183640576

As Elon says, Input is error.

 

[Resist]

I was stopped at a construction zone. When the flagger turned the sign from Stop to Slow, I thought that autopilot was still on, so I pushed the stalk up to turn it off. Because AP wasn't on, this put me into reverse.

This just happened to me today! Luckily the car behind me at the stop light wasn't too close and I didn't back into him. Really freaked me out, because I didn't initially catch it that I was going backwards and then didn't understand why. And I don't even recall if the rear camera came on, it all happened so fast. Maybe Tesla should have a bid red "R" pop up on the screen and a beeping sound inside the car, whenever it's actually in reverse.

 

[PianoAl]

Ever since I decided to never turn off AP with the stalk (use brake instead) this hasn't happened to me.

 

[Resist]

Ever since I decided to never turn off AP with the stalk (use brake instead) this hasn't happened to me.

I'll have to remember to do that.

 

[mtmra70]

I'm still confused why you go full up to disable AP. Why not do the normal half-up? You are doubling the effort/distance of stalk movement