there is a possibility that Porche options and availability of options/trims in US and in Europe are different. did you consider that? as most of the manufacturers in Europe have different trim levels, options, or even namings different than in US
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[UK] Model S/X LHD Discussion
- Thread starter prabhu
- Start date
I assume the loophole was closed or manufacturers stopped ordering RHD for people? may be worth checking but I think it was a few years around the turn of the century (that sounds weird!)
I looked into many moons ago when i was contemplating a Honda S2000, i think the saving was 5k.
I suspect Brexit has killed that off for good
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I suspect you are right, but I thought we had a reciprocal trade agreement with EU for "no duty"? Perhaps I have that completely wrong ...
Might also be that LHD bought from continent has other ownership-issue-snags in UK, but if I've understood it correctly Tesla is just bringing over LHD Inventory from EU to sell in UK, so maybe personal-import would do-able
I think that was the reasoning for it. Eg in markets where there are high sales taxes for cars to dissuade from buying - that was tax advantageous to the UK as we bought tax free in Europe and paid UK VAT or similar. So Netherlands was a good source at the time as manufacturers would sell in at a lower price to try and mitigate for the higher sales tax - which meant cheaper on the road costs in the UK
12Pack
Member
Mostly what doesn’t add up that you are commenting in a UK thread. I can only post what the dealer told me - the official dealer in Chester, a top dealer in the north west - of England. So either you, or the guy who came along for the test drive are wrong. I don’t care either way, I just didn’t care for the consistency with “recuperation” set to on - which has more to do with the hybrid set-up than the rotor material, I expect.
Porsche Taycan: New and used cars for sale | Porsche Finder GB
Characteristic driving pleasure without emissions: the Porsche Taycan represents the modern way of driving and futuristic design. Find yours here!
finder.porsche.com
Regardless, I‘m looking for something with the range of my Raven MS. Perhaps as you say the Porsche stops better than a MS, but my concern is that it needs to stop more often - to charge.
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Doudeau
Member
I believe the discounts for buying in the EU also had a lot to do with prevailing exchange rates being in our favour. If you recall, mainstream media used to love to quote “rip off Britain” for us being able to buy vehicles on the continent much cheaper. When exchange rates moved they couldn’t say that any more.
I used to have my RHD Mercedes and BMWs serviced in Northern France as their labour rates were much cheaper than west london and they didn’t try and overcharge like in the UK
. Another big plus for me not having to go to a dealership for servicing at their whim.
Good graftingI used to have my RHD Mercedes and BMWs serviced in Northern France as their labour rates were much cheaper than west london and they didn’t try and overcharge like in the UK
whitex
Well-Known Member
Before I replied to you, I did check the Porsche configurator to see whether Turbo S had a PSCB option in the UK, no. I also did a quick check with some UK Porsche forum members. So yea, your dealer doesn't seem to know his own product. Are you sure it was even a Taycan, or did you just trust the dealer?Mostly what doesn’t add up that you are commenting in a UK thread. I can only post what the dealer told me - the official dealer in Chester, a top dealer in the north west - of England. So either you, or the guy who came along for the test drive are wrong. I don’t care either way, I just didn’t care for the consistency with “recuperation” set to on - which has more to do with the hybrid set-up than the rotor material, I expect.
Porsche Taycan: New and used cars for sale | Porsche Finder GB
Characteristic driving pleasure without emissions: the Porsche Taycan represents the modern way of driving and futuristic design. Find yours here!
Regardless, I‘m looking for something with the range of my Raven MS. Perhaps as you say the Porsche stops better than a MS, but my concern is that it needs to stop more often - to charge.
As for traveling in the Taycan, I drove mine home from the dealer, 3500 miles across the US in the middle of winter (you can read more details on that trip here if interested). No problems whatsoever. The thing which was slowing me down the most was traffic, not charging. On my last leg, which was in the slowest speed limit states, but least traffic encountered, I traveled 689 miles in 11h 13m, charging and meal brakes included - that's a 63mph average. I've gone across the US in a Model S as well, and is was very similar except Model S charged slower. With Taycan's 270KW charging, you can actually cover a lot of distance fast. I prefer to stop every 100-150 miles, which is ideal for fast charging as most of your charging will be close or above 200KW (in some parts of the trip I was somewhat limited by >150KW charger availability, but that is changing quickly).
In terms of range, an EV which can reliably do 200 miles in most winter weathers is all I need. If Porsche was to make the Taycan more efficient, I would opt for a smaller battery to reduce its weight (even better handling) rather than longer range. Also, Taycan range predictions, once it's had a change to train itself on your driving habits and weather, are MUCH closer than any of my Teslas ever gave. In a Tesla I always had to do an adjustment in my head of mileage remaining, the Taycan is pretty dead on (if I leave the house, travel 60 miles, the remaining range goes down ~60 miles) - I am still getting used to not having to derate the remaining range in my head. In a decade of driving Model S'es I never once hit the rated miles for more than a few continuous miles, so that ingrained in me to always derate the range I see.
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whitex
Well-Known Member
Good point, but yes, I did consider that. Checked the Porsche configurator in UK to make sure Turbo S came with ceramic brakes standard. Also checked with some Taycan forum members from UK to see if perhaps some older model year TTS was offered with PSCBs, the answer was no.
12Pack
Member
7
And you seem to be mistaking me for someone who wants the incrementally better driving capabilities of a Taycan? I have 1000kg lighter and more powerful cars for that.
A range of 200 miles is way too short for me. It would mean we would have to stop at specific service locations, and not a wonderful pub of our choice on our trips. With the Raven performance as we can always make it to our overnight stop for charging. BTW, consider using battery percentage on arrival rather than mileage for trips. The MS is spot on for that.
Thanks for the info. In that case I’m sure the wonderfully knowledgeable sales guy who came with me - wasn’t. But you seem to be missing the point. It doesn’t change the fact that with recuperation, as Porsche calls it, set to “on” - the pedal feel was inconsistent for me. Doesnt matter whether they were PSCB, PCCB, P- BS or whatever. I much prefer the one pedal driving for my commute, and straightforward, non-hybrid brakes when I need them.Before I replied to you, I did check the Porsche configurator to see whether Turbo S had a PSCB option in the UK, no. I also did a quick check with some UK Porsche forum members. So yea, your dealer doesn't seem to know his own product. Are you sure it was even a Taycan, or did you just trust the dealer?
As for traveling in the Taycan, I drove mine home from the dealer, 3500 miles across the US in the middle of winter (you can read more details on that trip here if interested). No problems whatsoever. The thing which was slowing me down the most was traffic, not charging. On my last leg, which was in the slowest speed limit states, but least traffic encountered, I traveled 689 miles in 11h 13m, charging and meal brakes included - that's a 63mph average. I've gone across the US in a Model S as well, and is was very similar except Model S charged slower. With Taycan's 270KW charging, you can actually cover a lot of distance fast. I prefer to stop every 100-150 miles, which is ideal for fast charging as most of your charging will be close or above 200KW (in some parts of the trip I was somewhat limited by >150KW charger availability, but that is changing quickly).
In terms of range, an EV which can reliably do 200 miles in most winter weathers is all I need. If Porsche was to make the Taycan more efficient, I would opt for a smaller battery to reduce its weight (even better handling) rather than longer range. Also, Taycan range predictions, once it's had a change to train itself on your driving habits and weather, are MUCH closer than any of my Teslas ever gave. In a Tesla I always had to do an adjustment in my head of mileage remaining, the Taycan is pretty dead on (if I leave the house, travel 60 miles, the remaining range goes down ~60 miles) - I am still getting used to not having to derate the remaining range in my head. In a decade of driving Model S'es I never once hit the rated miles for more than a few continuous miles, so that ingrained in me to always derate the range I see.
And you seem to be mistaking me for someone who wants the incrementally better driving capabilities of a Taycan? I have 1000kg lighter and more powerful cars for that.
A range of 200 miles is way too short for me. It would mean we would have to stop at specific service locations, and not a wonderful pub of our choice on our trips. With the Raven performance as we can always make it to our overnight stop for charging. BTW, consider using battery percentage on arrival rather than mileage for trips. The MS is spot on for that.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
That suits me better too. I was hypermiling in ICE (naughties) before the move to EV. School run, on rural roads, I had it down to a fine art where to lift off to be at right speed for upcoming corner. Basically a game I was playing, against myself, on a route of half-a-dozen-miles that I drove 4 times a day, 6 days a week ,,,
I treat regen similarly - can I lift off at just the right time to be at right speed for the bend. The benefit of regen is if I come into a corner a bit hot I can turn in and the full regen will carry on bleeding off the last few MPH as I enter the bend, which gives me a bit more leeway than ICE Hypermiling
I've never driven blended-brakes, but I would hate it if I was not able to apply "max regen" - with zero physical brakes - as most of the time, when I'm not in a hurry
, that is what I want to do. Maybe there is a stop-limit of some sort on blended brakes, so that it is possible to "find" the max-regen but zero-physical point?
whitex
Well-Known Member
One pedal vs. blended braking is a personal preference. However, consistency is just a fact - one pedal driving works differently if the battery is cold or full.
Taycan is not incrementally better handling, it's in a whole new league. I loved my Sport+ suspension in my Model S, but after a month of driving the Taycan (including a 3500 mile trip home from the dealer), I sold my P85DL+, drove it to the new owner, and that is when I realized how big the difference was. It was like moving from a sports car to a road cruiser - I got used to a nice, precise suspension of the Taycan, dynamic chassis leveling which significantly limits the body roll, etc.
As for range, I get it, not everyone can live with 200 mile range. Even 400 miles is insufficient for some people. It really depends on your usecase. Longest EV range today is Lucid Air by the way, so if longest possible range if your key criteria, that is what you should switch to. It has 516 mile range and a solid charging curve, so it can eat up miles really fast.
As for using destination SoC, that is how I've been driving Teslas on trips for a decade, and how I road trip with the Taycan today. Neither Tesla, nor Taycan are spot on - I just drive normally until the destination SoC drops below some threshold (depending on weather and alternate charging availability) and then slow down or divert to a closer charger. As to how much the destination SoC can be off, well, depends on many factors, but it can be quite a bit off. Below is a picture I took from the Model S energy graph showing predicted remaining energy vs. actual on one of the worst SC to SC hops. I overcharged because on that trip I noticed the car was being way overoptimistic, partly because it kept on losing speed limits or using some incorrect ones from some database (e.g. highway had 80mph limit, which the Model S showed at first, but after few miles dropped it to 65mph even though there was no sign changing the limit).
whitex
Well-Known Member
For hypermiling, the blended system works better than one pedal driving. In a Tesla, regen is only available via one pedal driving. In a blended brakes system, the brake pedal is essentially brake-by-wire, meaning you get regen when you apply the brakes. Most of off-track braking doesn't use mechanical braking at all in a Taycan, as regen is up to 270KW, vs. Tesla up to 70KW IIRC. Also, in a Taycan you can disable the small amount of regen which kicks in when you lift off the accelerator (to simulate engine braking) which allows you to truly coast, which is more efficient than constantly either accelerating or decelerating (or threading the needle with the accelerator to keep on coasting).That suits me better too. I was hypermiling in ICE (naughties) before the move to EV. School run, on rural roads, I had it down to a fine art where to lift off to be at right speed for upcoming corner. Basically a game I was playing, against myself, on a route of half-a-dozen-miles that I drove 4 times a day, 6 days a week ,,,
I treat regen similarly - can I lift off at just the right time to be at right speed for the bend. The benefit of regen is if I come into a corner a bit hot I can turn in and the full regen will carry on bleeding off the last few MPH as I enter the bend, which gives me a bit more leeway than ICE Hypermiling
I've never driven blended-brakes, but I would hate it if I was not able to apply "max regen" - with zero physical brakes - as most of the time, when I'm not in a hurry
Maybe there is a stop-limit of some sort on blended brakes, so that it is possible to "find" the max-regen but zero-physical point?
As for the point where the mechanical braking kicks in, it's subtle but you can feel/hear it if you keep the cabin silent (I prefer to drive in silence). The thing is though, most of the time, after your first mile in a day or so, during which Taycan uses mechanical brakes to clean them once a day, the mechanical braking doesn't engage at all unless you're close to stopping. With the max regen being many times that of Tesla, it can slow you down quite a bit without engaging physical brakes. Oh, mechanical brakes also are used if there are traction problems (i.e. there is no regen anti-lock-braking, only mechanical).
12Pack
Member
Hey Whitex, the your ”whole new league” for handling must be narrowly defined. I trust you have actually driven a Raven with decent tyres and made some effort to pick the advanced settings to your liking? And you have a pure performance car for reference? Sadly, both the MS and Taycan change direction in line with their weight. Just physics. But only one of them has the range I want. I’d say I look forward to your ”last word“ reply, but I’m not sure I’m up to reading it in full. Enjoy your Taycan.
I’m going to console myself by adding EAP with all its limits in the UK, just to have something a bit different while I wait for a better option to come along.
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whitex
Well-Known Member
If you read my post, you know I was comparing P85DL with Sport+ suspension, to a Taycan Turbo with PDCC. RAS, and PTV+. Neither is a proper track race car. because both are large and heavy cars. However, for such heavy cars, Taycan handles way better, way less body roll, and better braking (again, comparing those two cars). Taycan also feels smaller and more nimble, possibly due to rear-wheel-steering. To answer your question about Raven, no, I haven't driven one long enough to form an opinion (or to tweak the suspension to my liking), but I doubt it would keep up with a Taycan around corners. I was going to get a Plaid, but the stalkless, non-proportional steering yoke turned me off the car completely.
Enjoy EAP to whatever limits your government lets you. Personally I preferred AP1 to AP2.5 (the two cars we had) for lane keeping on highways, everything else was not really practical to use, so there just for playing around. Taycan's lane keeping is even less useful - I heard someone accurately describe it as "Driver assists Tesla AP/ADAS, while Porsche ADAS assists the driver". That said, I didn't buy the Taycan or Model S for their ADAS features.
Leytonstone
You're mistaken
The news has made me re-evaluate all the really good things about my car. Principally this is the ride and handling mix, and the hilarious amount of space it affords a family of five. You can seat everyone, in supreme comfort, with all items of luggage magicked out of sight so there aren't any errant carrier bags spilling their contents in footwells, or some poor sod heating up under the pile of beach towels on their lap.
There isn't anything else quite like the Model S on sale in the UK, and now there's a chance there will never be either. The closest thing is an EQS, and I don't want to own a luxury saloon which is so drab it's indistinguishable from the equally drab EQE -- a damning comparison if there ever was one -- and which exudes all the style and sophistication of a part worn bar of soap.
There isn't anything else quite like the Model S on sale in the UK, and now there's a chance there will never be either. The closest thing is an EQS, and I don't want to own a luxury saloon which is so drab it's indistinguishable from the equally drab EQE -- a damning comparison if there ever was one -- and which exudes all the style and sophistication of a part worn bar of soap.
12Pack
Member
On your last point, indeed it’s not till I considered any of the competition, that I realized part of what I like about the MS is a coolness factor where it is consciously different from what came before. This is the opposite of the German approach where they consciously try to reassure their customers that EVs are no different from their ICE offerings. But then this is also problem for us and Tesla, because it would seem given the number of Taycans and Audi EVs I’m seeing, that people going for a 100k + EV want the same old “luxury” stuff.
The traditional German manufacturers want above all to preserve their distribution network and aftersales, that's also why they want to keep their EV similar to ICE by insisting on the same annual maintenance BS and keep a steady revenue stream... I'd welcome a TCO analysis on an EQS vs MS over 4 years. I'm sure some unscrupulous dealerships have already tried to invoice an oil change to their most 'seniors' customers to which they sold an EQS...
Tesla disrupted things in a good way on that segment, and hopefully they won't roll back on that...
This is a pity as I was hoping to change my 2017 MS for the new model at some point. I remember the G60 Corrados - only available in LHD and then VW changed their minds and offered in RHD throwing the LHD owners under the bus.
I can't really see Tesla effectively withdrawing their "halo" cars from the UK permanently ?
I can't really see Tesla effectively withdrawing their "halo" cars from the UK permanently ?
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