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RIP Dual Chargers

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by RichardMcN, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. RichardMcN

    RichardMcN Member

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    I was initially happy to be getting the new nose, until I asked about the "High Amperage Charger Upgrade" on the configuration page only going to 16.5 kW.

    It seems that the 22 kW dual chargers I ordered are not able to be fitted to The Model S with the new nose, and you are limited to 11 or 16.5 kW. At 220 Wh/km, this is a 75 km/h rather than 100 km/h charge rate. This has been a surprise to everybody, including Tesla staff in Australia.

    Limiting to 16.5 kW does not make sense to me as 32 amp 3 phase outlets (22 kW) are a common standard and often available in Australia (see numerous posts in this forum) and common in quite a few areas worldwide (PlugShare app).

    The lower charging speed means that a 200 km lunchtime 3 phase top up would take 2 hours 40 mins instead of 2 hours. You would have to eat very slowly indeed, and be struggling to entertain your co-travellers.

    I have family in rural NSW and company branches including Adelaide, and would like to go road tripping beyond the supercharger network, so this is a big deal to me.

    Fortunately Adam (Sydney Delivery Specialist) and Store Manager Will are working hard to stop me being affected by the downgrade, and I will probably go back to the classic nose.

    Will keep you posted ...

    P.S. My 15 y.o. son sees the classic nose as something distinctive in an era where Tesla is standardising on the Model X / Model 3 look, so a potential silver lining here!
     
  2. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    I was seriously wondering about this aspect myself. Didn't suspect it had anything to do with the new nose. Will be interested to know if they are able to do anything about it.
     
  3. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    I purchased our Model S "in-between" updates in 2013. At the time the premium audio price was increased on the newer configuration, and it was the first time the parking sensors and power folding mirrors were added.

    Tesla's solution was, old build, old price, only old options. New build, new price new options.

    I chose to go with the parking sensors and power folding mirrors and the new pricing.
     
  4. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    I am finding all this terminology confusing, lets see how much I can get right.

    On the car, you can have a charger, 11kW or 16.5kW. Or you can have two 11kW chargers to get 22kW.

    Then you have different connections to the power source:

    * mobile connection; any power point.
    * standard wall connector, presumably this will get 11kW. I assume this is what comes free with the car.
    * HPWC - is this just the same as above but up 18kW. Can't seem to find any reference to these on Tesla's website. Presumably this requires dual chargers.
    * supercharger. Apparently won't charge any faster with dual chargers.

    I see reports of superchargers up to 120kW - does this mean they somehow bypass the on board chargers?

    Which charges at a faster rate? superchargers or HPWC? Or is the correct answer "it depends?"

    From Google I found this which says the maximum a HPWC can produce in Australia is 18kW (on single phase; can't you do 3 phase in Australia?) in which case, if true, dual chargers may not offer a big advantage over the 16.5kW option.

    I might be completely confused however.
     
  5. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    From the documentation I linked to above:

    "Maximum 100A Circuit Breaker. The maximum current for charging the vehicle is 80A or 20 kW. At 230V, this will be 18 kW maximum."

    Huh? Why bother even support 100A circuit breaker if the maximum current is 80A?

    It doesn't mention 3 phase for Australia, so appears to be lacking in details.
     
  6. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    Considering the supercharger network in Australia is rather limited at the moment, and only on one route (e.g. nothing out Bairnsdale/Lakes Entrance/Orbost/Mallacoota way; Similar nothing in West Victoria; around Grampians or towards Adelaide), I think going beyond the supercharger network will become more common as more and more people get Teslas.
     
  7. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Safety... Not supposed to load a circuit >80% of capacity, so a re for 100A goes as fast as 80A
     
  8. RichardMcN

    RichardMcN Member

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    #8 RichardMcN, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    That's right Brian. To get the full 22kW out of dual chargers you need either (or both) of:
    1. A 3 phase HPWC (which are just starting to become available in Aust thru Tesla) or
    2. A third party portable charger like the Maxicharger below with a 32 amp 3 phase Australian plug.

    Maxicharger.jpg 32A.jpg
    I have one on order from EVnomics.

    There is a huge Mobile charging for Australia thread on all of this !
     
  9. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    You've found the North American HPWC manual. By our standards you have to have a circuit breaker 125% larger than a continuous load like EV charging. That is the root of the 80A/100A issue. The vehicle connector for this HPWC does not fit Australian Model S vehicles. Tesla recently started shipping the 3-phase Wall Connector to the Australian market. Let me find the link... here it is: 3 Phase HPWC for Australia
     
  10. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    Looks like I can't access the manuals on mytesla ... possibly because I don't own a Tesla.

    I had a look but couldn't find the Maxicharger on their website.

    Getting back on topic it does seem very strange that Tesla would remove what I consider a key feature (22kW fast charging ability) for the sake of changing the style of the nose.
     
  11. raynewman

    raynewman Member

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    It does not say you can't have two as in the X.
     
  12. RichardMcN

    RichardMcN Member

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    I think I am Tim's test customer, but I know a number of forum members have bought one directly.
    Here it is if you are either good at French or good at pressing the Google translate button.

    I'm thinking the loss of the 22 kW fast charging ability is not actually caused by the nose styling, more likely it just happens to be introduced in the same change release.
     
  13. AndrewNSW

    AndrewNSW Member

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    Good point - I wouldn't have thought so - but do the air intake vents in the classic style nose do anything at all? - wondering if keeping two chargers cool enough may have something to do with it?

    Also agree with Richards line of thinking. I got charging at 134km/h the other day with dual chargers and 32 amp 3 phase.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    I doubt that there is any technical reason for the change, outside of Tesla simplifying it's charging from two lines (for Model S and Model X) to a single line. If you look, the new Model S charger has the same capabilities as the Model X one.
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. AndrewNSW

    AndrewNSW Member

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    Yes, that makes sense
     
  16. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    So wonder why didn't have the dual charger from the model X. Looking around on the Internet I get the impression it was popular, requested for the Model X, and worth the extra cost.
     
  17. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Actually, the Dual Chargers never made it into the X. The X had the 48->72 Amp High power charger.

    The single/dual charger setup has been on the X. (as a matter of reference, the Roadster had a 70 Amp single charger).
     
  18. Brian May

    Brian May Member

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    I find the change in units confusing. So a Model X can charge at 48 or 72 amps depending on options? Which is 48*240=11kW or 72*240=17kW (maybe 16.5kW) if I got that right.

    Sorry, you lost me here.
     
  19. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Correct. As long as the power supply cab handle the request.
     
  20. RichardMcN

    RichardMcN Member

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    I think AEdennis means "The single/dual charger setup has been on the S".
     

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