Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Once I get the truck, these are the skid plates I will build... just waiting for a decent electric truck..
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Ripped Undercarriage Composite from the rain?
- Thread starter SnickySnacks
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I had the exact same damage as kentrock1. I was driving home in the remnants of the hurricane than came through VA in mid October and drove through a puddle I couldn’t see at maybe 35. When I looked under the car on Saturday morning, I had a flap hanging down right of center just behind the battery.
I “fixed” it with some superglue on the front edge and some Nomaco 82330 black poly tape. I’d tape the whole edge if I could get under there. I did notice that I am missing the bolt just right of center on the front edge that you can see in the pictures from the other thread mentioned above. Can’t see under there but I can feel the hole for it. 42xxx 7/18 build.
I “fixed” it with some superglue on the front edge and some Nomaco 82330 black poly tape. I’d tape the whole edge if I could get under there. I did notice that I am missing the bolt just right of center on the front edge that you can see in the pictures from the other thread mentioned above. Can’t see under there but I can feel the hole for it. 42xxx 7/18 build.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
One of these days I'll do some more "undercover work" and take some pictures of an undamaged front edge with all bolts included (except for the center panel bolt which I am missing - I have 12 out of 13). There has to be a reason it rips in this particular spot. My prior pictures are not taken from an aspect that allows me to clearly see it, but it APPEARS from my pictures looking from the back of the car that there is intentionally a gap, where there is more space between the steel and the composite, between two bolts to allow drainage (presumably). This would act as a scoop for water greater than 4-5 inches deep and the force could be considerable.
If it is for drainage, it might be advisable to lightly perforate or leave a small gap in whatever front edge sealing method that you use. Most likely it isn't necessary, it'll probably drain out on its own one way or another (the true low point appears to be more in the center of the panel).
I agree that if this scoop exists, that no one should be paying for Tesla to repair these issues, and Tesla should modify the design and replace damaged pieces free of charge. Driving through large puddles at high speed certainly isn't a good idea for many reasons, but 3-4 inches of water should not cause damage.
If it is for drainage, it might be advisable to lightly perforate or leave a small gap in whatever front edge sealing method that you use. Most likely it isn't necessary, it'll probably drain out on its own one way or another (the true low point appears to be more in the center of the panel).
I agree that if this scoop exists, that no one should be paying for Tesla to repair these issues, and Tesla should modify the design and replace damaged pieces free of charge. Driving through large puddles at high speed certainly isn't a good idea for many reasons, but 3-4 inches of water should not cause damage.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Took a couple pictures.
As suspected, there is a ~4mm gap between steel and cover which I guess could potentially act as a scoop. Attaching some pictures.
I would think you would actually have to drive through water that is very deep (on my P3D it is nearly exactly 6” to this scoop from the ground, measured by the ruler), in order to rip this thing off, and it would have to be at considerable speed. Water is heavy and strong though. But can’t see how momentary splashes of water, even at freeway speeds, would do it. Seems like it would need to be a deep puddle of about 6” or more.
Comparing to the rest of the cover though, it IS a bigger gap in the location people are finding the cover ripped. Seems like it would hurt aero very slightly too.
I don’t really think it would hurt to tape it, or find another more elegant means of covering this gap (thin aluminum secured by the bolts, possibly mounted UNDER the cover?) to reduce high pressure water intrusion.
The images show:
1) Overview comparing the two different sections, with a finger for scale. Large gap (4mm) on right, small gap on left.
2) Picture of less significant gap, closer to the wheel.
3) Bigger gap closer to center (with ruler).
Seems like this should be redesigned to add a little lip, and eliminate the gap. And add a new drain hole if necessary, as the lip might cause minor pooling on top of the cover.
The Model 3 is not designed to ford streams! Proceed with caution.
As suspected, there is a ~4mm gap between steel and cover which I guess could potentially act as a scoop. Attaching some pictures.
I would think you would actually have to drive through water that is very deep (on my P3D it is nearly exactly 6” to this scoop from the ground, measured by the ruler), in order to rip this thing off, and it would have to be at considerable speed. Water is heavy and strong though. But can’t see how momentary splashes of water, even at freeway speeds, would do it. Seems like it would need to be a deep puddle of about 6” or more.
Comparing to the rest of the cover though, it IS a bigger gap in the location people are finding the cover ripped. Seems like it would hurt aero very slightly too.
I don’t really think it would hurt to tape it, or find another more elegant means of covering this gap (thin aluminum secured by the bolts, possibly mounted UNDER the cover?) to reduce high pressure water intrusion.
The images show:
1) Overview comparing the two different sections, with a finger for scale. Large gap (4mm) on right, small gap on left.
2) Picture of less significant gap, closer to the wheel.
3) Bigger gap closer to center (with ruler).
Seems like this should be redesigned to add a little lip, and eliminate the gap. And add a new drain hole if necessary, as the lip might cause minor pooling on top of the cover.
The Model 3 is not designed to ford streams! Proceed with caution.
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Part of the question is whether the front edge of the felt undercover protrudes lower than the edge of the metal frame infront of it. Somewhat regardless if there is that 4mm gap with the steel above it. If the bottom edge doesn’t protrude below the steel frame infront of it, it shouldn’t act as a scoop and shouldn’t be prone to catching on sticks/debri. Mine seems to have a tighter tolerance than the pics you posted. I have one small section on the drivers side, that is maybe 1-2mm lower and contemplated just putting some gorilla tape and calling it the day....but it also seems to maybe be a low point too and was concerned about hindering any water drainage.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It’s close enough that if you were driving around in deep puddles the water would get pushed in with significant momentum and would probably rip the cover. Incidental splashing - I don’t see how that could be a problem. Adding a side view. It’s close to flush with the steel (or whatever) bit in front, but you can see how water could get pushed right in there.
My guess is all the people with damage either:
1) Were missing bolts so the cover was hanging lower and easily damaged.
Or
2) Drove pretty fast through quite a deep puddle.
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super20g
Member
Like most of you, I have driven a lot of miles on several cars over the years through all kinds of weather conditions and I have never had the undercarriage plastic fail outside of a legitimate accident/running over significant debris, especially on a brand new car... I haven't had this failure on my 3 yet, but I sure wouldn't be forking over $150 to Tesla to fix it in the first place, let alone before the part is revised, because one would assume that is where this is eventually going unless it was just due to cars that were missing bolts.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I feel like after all the heavy rain in Southern California yesterday and last night, we should get some more reports on this soon, if there is actually an issue here! There were some large puddles around! And there are so many Model 3s...
ThisSo after my first problem, here: Paint chip on wheel at delivery
I've run into another one.
It's been raining a lot in Texas lately. Today I went on a short drive (city roads/frontage roads only, driving slow due to the traffic and heavy rain) to the movies. Switched lanes to avoid puddles as best I could, but came out from the movies and heard scraping from underneath the car.
Seems to be the same problem as described here:
Undercarriage Composite Tray Ripped | Tesla
I'm not happy, to say the least. My car is barely two and a half weeks old and parts are already ripping and falling off it -_-
No, i haven't bottomed it out or anything. There's no damage anywhere else except that one piece of composite.
I assume it got water between the composite and body and ripped, but man does that seem like poor design.
Other parts of the undercarriage and even the portion of the composite that is physically lower to the ground than this piece are perfectly fine.
Pictures for the curious:
*grumble*
I want to love this car, but man...
So after my first problem, here: Paint chip on wheel at delivery
I've run into another one.
It's been raining a lot in Texas lately. Today I went on a short drive (city roads/frontage roads only, driving slow due to the traffic and heavy rain) to the movies. Switched lanes to avoid puddles as best I could, but came out from the movies and heard scraping from underneath the car.
Seems to be the same problem as described here:
Undercarriage Composite Tray Ripped | Tesla
I'm not happy, to say the least. My car is barely two and a half weeks old and parts are already ripping and falling off it -_-
No, i haven't bottomed it out or anything. There's no damage anywhere else except that one piece of composite.
I assume it got water between the composite and body and ripped, but man does that seem like poor design.
Other parts of the undercarriage and even the portion of the composite that is physically lower to the ground than this piece are perfectly fine.
Pictures for the curious:
*grumble*
I want to love this car, but man...
So after my first problem, here: Paint chip on wheel at delivery
I've run into another one.
It's been raining a lot in Texas lately. Today I went on a short drive (city roads/frontage roads only, driving slow due to the traffic and heavy rain) to the movies. Switched lanes to avoid puddles as best I could, but came out from the movies and heard scraping from underneath the car.
Seems to be the same problem as described here:
Undercarriage Composite Tray Ripped | Tesla
I'm not happy, to say the least. My car is barely two and a half weeks old and parts are already ripping and falling off it -_-
No, i haven't bottomed it out or anything. There's no damage anywhere else except that one piece of composite.
I assume it got water between the composite and body and ripped, but man does that seem like poor design.
Other parts of the undercarriage and even the portion of the composite that is physically lower to the ground than this piece are perfectly fine.
Pictures for the curious:
*grumble*
I want to love this car, but man...
Just got home from taking my son to school and it sounded like I was dragging something. I looked underneath the car and have the very exact same problem. We have had a lot of rain the last couple of days. I just got my Model 3 in July and do not drive my car hard and haven’t run over or hit anything. Looks like this is a recurring problem from what I am reading.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That looks like the rear? I can’t tell from a quick glance. In any case it appears you are missing some bolts. (However, it is hard to tell - there are holes hidden under the cover where no bolt belongs - but I think I see two empty bolt holes.). However, for certain: for the rear, there should be 6 hex 8mm head bolt/washers on the leading edge.
EDIT: maybe no bolts missing - this looks like the common damage in one section, which seems to occur in deep puddles/heavy rain.
If you are missing any of them (especially if there is more than one missing), I would talk to Tesla to get the shield replaced free of charge -if it was loose and flopping around it could easily sustain damage. EDIT: well, might not be missing bolts, but you might be able to argue it is defective if you print out a bunch of pictures of identical damage that are posted in this thread...
It also appears there may be some scraped metal under there though? I can’t tell.
If possible take pictures to document how many bolts are missing, if any.
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Ulmo
Active Member
Teslas seem delicate when it comes to puddles. I also received damage from a puddle once on my Tesla Model S.
Ulmo
Active Member
Ulmo
Active Member
That right there is a huge part of the problem. It should tuck under. Also, its material should be better able to absorb such events. Of course it may require re-crash-testing if it is stiff.I paid to have mine replaced, rather than have a giant hole there.
Looking at it, post-repair, it's easy to see how the design is flawed.
On my car, the front lip of the protector does not sit flush with the car, so no wonder it can potentially catch water.
Ulmo
Active Member
I love the aftermarket idea. How could it be made in small quantities to avoid troubles with not enough interest?
What a fantastic idea! This looks great.
Upon reflection, make sure that if you make a really good undercarriage that can handle a lot of water, that:
- You don't go airborne and spin around, causing other types of worse problems than torn felt (death, much worse than $150 repair of felt!).
- Heat dissipates properly.
- Water drains properly.
- In the event of a fire event, that it doesn't burn toxically killing you or others, or burn you to death from burnability. I wonder if stuffing in rockwool would be stupid. Probably: hard to keep it in place (breaking loose and getting caught in mechanics breaking them down even in dangerous ways, and water-soaked fibers causing shorts in electronics causing fires), and would bottle in the heat. Could help with sound though.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I guess I should really tape this edge up sooner rather than later...
Maybe I'll investigate whether that apparently unused bolt hole is threaded and has clearance to insert a bolt, too. It appears to be right in the middle of the lip that catches water so maybe adding a bolt there would help reduce the force of going through a big puddle. Would need a few washers on the other side of the panel to avoid bending it too much..since there is a gap between the panel & the bolt hole...though some bending would reduce the size of the gap which presumably scoops up the water.
Definitely it does not appear to be made for puddles. Still a bit surprised it rips so easily. I would expect it would require at least a 5-inch deep puddle at a decent speed.
Maybe I'll investigate whether that apparently unused bolt hole is threaded and has clearance to insert a bolt, too. It appears to be right in the middle of the lip that catches water so maybe adding a bolt there would help reduce the force of going through a big puddle. Would need a few washers on the other side of the panel to avoid bending it too much..since there is a gap between the panel & the bolt hole...though some bending would reduce the size of the gap which presumably scoops up the water.
Definitely it does not appear to be made for puddles. Still a bit surprised it rips so easily. I would expect it would require at least a 5-inch deep puddle at a decent speed.
Ulmo
Active Member
I don't think it needs to be so high to reach as high as the prone areas.
Water could be directed by the pressure of the car (anything: air, sound, wheels, etc. that is part of the car moving through air and through the puddle) into the body of the car, and that water would hit the car at-speed. The puddle only needs to be within reach of that effect; it doesn't necessarily have to have a certain height able to reach the bottom of the car when the car is parked. Even a very thin amount of water on the pavement could be sucked up by the tires, wind, etc. and jetted into the car parts. Imagine a 100 foot puddle with a 100 foot wall of dead-stopped water being put by some likely angular action of the car force being put into any body part of the car. That's a huge wall of pressure. If the car part is not completely hydrologically streamlined to handle that, it would likely fail. What would happen to any other part that hits a 100 foot wall at 60 miles per hour continuously for 100 feet? That's almost worse than hitting the wall just once! Yes, water is not the same as a solid object, but it is a huge amount of force. Think back to swim class when they made you jump off the high dive and how bad that hurt!
Having said that, cars commonly encounter water, so it should be designed into the function of the car to handle it.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, that seems possible. Depends on how the splashes from the rear tires are directed exactly. It is hard to predict, and for sure the little gap is not helpful. No puddles for the 3!
Michel3
Love those Aero's
This is ridiculous, you can't avoid puddles. Clearly a production fault. I hope it will be exchanged by a more durable part.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I was kidding. But I can avoid puddles, I live in Southern California, where it no longer rains, and can always drive my Spark EV when it's raining (it's very robust!). Not ideal. Hence my plan to emulate others here and take matters into my own hands soon. Need to buy some tape or come up with some other customization...
However, I've been told by others on this forum that Tesla always knows best.
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