Rivian delayed again (now Sep for R1T, 2 month additional delay)

[strider]

Not a mirage but c'mon they are tiny. They won't be able to support a nation wide release not unlike like any other niche brand. Hell Tesla is niche in some parts of teh country where a service center may be a few hours away. And that is Tesla which is the biggest pure ev play, imagine your problem if the worst happens and service is 5 hours away or more?

Tesla started out tiny as well - by definition, every company does. Your "worst" scenario happened to Tesla owners in the early days. Tesla would load up a tech in a van and/or flatbed the car to where they could look at it. Rivian will do the same. They will get through it as we did.

People will buy Rivians in 2021 just like we bought Teslas in 2010. If Rivian is not a threat to Tesla, why do you feel the need to trash them on a forum?

 

[thesmokingman]

Tesla started out tiny as well - by definition, every company does. Your "worst" scenario happened to Tesla owners in the early days. Tesla would load up a tech in a van and/or flatbed the car to where they could look at it. Rivian will do the same. They will get through it as we did.

People will buy Rivians in 2021 just like we bought Teslas in 2010. If Rivian is not a threat to Tesla, why do you feel the need to trash them on a forum?

Whose trashing them? If you think being critical and realistic is trashing... smh. That's the reality they are tiny.

 

[Merrill]

If you do the research about Rivian you will see that they have put together a strong and valid company with huge capitalization, I have been following them since inception and feel that they are in a better position than Tesla was at the same time frame.

 

[Cuttin]

Will I guess if the Rivian is a mirage I will have to get a Lighting.

Honestly I do have more faith in Ford.

they already have a massive service network, although I know they don't yet have anyone that knows evs, they do have a training protocol and stuff all set up in general, so I'm sure they'll deliver on that.

Chagrin wise, they do have some deals with 3rd party for the mach e, I'm sure by time lightning comes it will be ironed out. But not speed wise, will be a bit until the 3rd party networks have enough fast charging capability spread everywhere.

And regarding production. They have proved they can make a very decent ev with the Mustang. It doesn't have anything a tesla had many many years ago, like over air updates or autopilot, but at least it drives and drives pretty well per the reviews. And looks great.

Specs wise for a truck, I think it will fail. But there are many out there that don't NEED the range. And it will shine there, somewhat. ESPECIALLY if they get in before cyber truck, which will blow away the market.

Speaking of that one of the only advantages rivian has is getting in before cyber truck. That looks like it is slowly vanishing. Looks and gimmicks are cute but it's a the beef that people want and need. Range and power and tech and charging.

 

[Cuttin]

If you do the research about Rivian you will see that they have put together a strong and valid company with huge capitalization, I have been following them since inception and feel that they are in a better position than Tesla was at the same time frame.

Sorry. Didn't see this before I posted.

Yes. Your statement is one of my points exactly. Like tesla was when THEY started. 2008-2010. It's a totally different ballpark now. If tesla were to start now they might not make it either.

 

[strider]

Specs wise for a truck, I think it will fail. But there are many out there that don't NEED the range. And it will shine there, somewhat. ESPECIALLY if they get in before cyber truck, which will blow away the market.

No question that the F-150's range is low. But they are still new to EVs and have to work w/ an outside partner for the batteries. I think range will improve in the future and they will probably bring the battery tech in-house. Further, real world range between Teslas and non-Teslas are much closer than the window stickers would indicate. Non-Teslas are much more conservative w/ their range estimates.

But seriously, you should go read the threads about the refresh Model S. I now have ZERO faith that the CT will "blow away the market" unless you are talking about metrics like the size of the panel gaps, loose trim, dented speaker grills, misaligned doors, broken turn signals, and buggy software. Heck, they are still having issues w/ moisture in the taillights. My MS had this problem in 2012!!!!! 9 years later and here we are. Further, the CT specs are wholly dependent on Tesla getting the 4680 cells to work. I believe that they decision to start w/ MY in Austin means that the 4680s are not yet ready. If they can't solve whatever issues they are having then the CT could be further delayed or the specs changed to use 2170s.

At the end of the day, none of these vehicles exist in production form, though Rivian seems the closest. We are all speculating. Frankly, I am thrilled that we are getting to argue about which of 5 EV pickups will be the best. That represents a HUGE leap in terms of EV adoption.

 

[gmo43]

Honestly I do have more faith in Ford.

they already have a massive service network, although I know they don't yet have anyone that knows evs, they do have a training protocol and stuff all set up in general, so I'm sure they'll deliver on that.

Chagrin wise, they do have some deals with 3rd party for the mach e, I'm sure by time lightning comes it will be ironed out. But not speed wise, will be a bit until the 3rd party networks have enough fast charging capability spread everywhere.

And regarding production. They have proved they can make a very decent ev with the Mustang. It doesn't have anything a tesla had many many years ago, like over air updates or autopilot, but at least it drives and drives pretty well per the reviews. And looks great.

Specs wise for a truck, I think it will fail. But there are many out there that don't NEED the range. And it will shine there, somewhat. ESPECIALLY if they get in before cyber truck, which will blow away the market.

Speaking of that one of the only advantages rivian has is getting in before cyber truck. That looks like it is slowly vanishing. Looks and gimmicks are cute but it's a the beef that people want and need. Range and power and tech and charging.

Guess who Tesla hired. A lot of these big auto manufacturers shop guys. They then trained to to their ev stuff. So chill. I'm sure Ford has money to train them on ev. Hook a cable and figure out what wrong replace few things. To hard ok call an engineer. But agree Ford has better potential than rivian.

 

[Krispykreme]

Not a mirage but c'mon they are tiny. They won't be able to support a nation wide release not unlike like any other niche brand. Hell Tesla is niche in some parts of teh country where a service center may be a few hours away. And that is Tesla which is the biggest pure ev play, imagine your problem if the worst happens and service is 5 hours away or more?

Tesla was tiny too. Remember that too.

Rivian doesn’t need retail to survive.

Amazon backing in both funding and order already gave Rivian a strong base.

Tesla autopilot and FSD is an liability not a selling point if Elon keeps on trying to over promise.

NHTSA and FTC is just beginning.

We have already seen Lucid putting Plaid to bed with better powertrain efficiency.

What makes everyone here think that Tesla will maintain lead when in reality other than charging network and scale. There isn’t anything that Tesla is really leading in EV space anymore.

 

[thesmokingman]

Tesla was tiny too. Remember that too.

Rivian doesn’t need retail to survive.

Amazon backing in both funding and order already gave Rivian a strong base.

Tesla autopilot and FSD is an liability not a selling point if Elon keeps on trying to over promise.

NHTSA and FTC is just beginning.

We have already seen Lucid putting Plaid to bed with better powertrain efficiency.

What makes everyone here think that Tesla will maintain lead when in reality other than charging network and scale. There isn’t anything that Tesla is really leading in EV space anymore.

Troll much?

 

[Cuttin]

Tesla was tiny too. Remember that too.

Rivian doesn’t need retail to survive.

Amazon backing in both funding and order already gave Rivian a strong base.

Tesla autopilot and FSD is an liability not a selling point if Elon keeps on trying to over promise.

NHTSA and FTC is just beginning.

We have already seen Lucid putting Plaid to bed with better powertrain efficiency.

What makes everyone here think that Tesla will maintain lead when in reality other than charging network and scale. There isn’t anything that Tesla is really leading in EV space anymore.

Few things.

When Tesla was tiny they were it. No competition. Now to Ian has plenty of competition.

Yes Amazon definitely helps rivian out. Will see where it goes. So far nowhere but it’s much easier making no frills vans that have a charging base and no need for tech than making a successful retail version in a very competitive segment.

Tesla AP is NOT a liability and will never be. It’s a phenomenal piece of tech. I use it constantly. Billions of safe miles driven on it by fleet. Years ahead of anything in production. Yes some issues but overall excellent. So a few people died, Billions of miles! Hits fire trucks? Yeah that sucks but is SUPER rare and will get better. Not of even close to being of statistical significance. What they don’t talk about is the driver walking away unharmed after hitting a fire truck at 75mph. Ridiculous safety.

Lucid didn’t do anything. All they did is overpromise and get sued for it. Totally hyped up. Still not close to delivering and prob won’t be for a while. Maybe maybe a few cars by end of year. No chargers. No tech. Supposedly good specs with a good looking car but anyone can talk the talk

Tesla leading by far my friend. Very far. On every metric. Acceleration save 200k Porsche. Range. Charging by very very far. Tech. No current production cars come even close. Other day my jaw dropped reading that Benz eqs will charge at 200kw max. Lol. Tesla has been at @250kw for a few years. This is MB. making cars for 100 years! Sad. Hyundai ioniq ironically might be better but not in us yet. Either Tesla way far ahead of almost all.

 

[thesmokingman]

Few things.

When Tesla was tiny they were it. No competition. Now to Ian has plenty of competition.

Yes Amazon definitely helps rivian out. Will see where it goes. So far nowhere but it’s much easier making no frills vans that have a charging base and no need for tech than making a successful retail version in a very competitive segment.

Tesla AP is NOT a liability and will never be. It’s a phenomenal piece of tech. I use it constantly. Billions of safe miles driven on it by fleet. Years ahead of anything in production. Yes some issues but overall excellent. So a few people died, Billions of miles! Hits fire trucks? Yeah that sucks but is SUPER rare and will get better. Not of even close to being of statistical significance. What they don’t talk about is the driver walking away unharmed after hitting a fire truck at 75mph. Ridiculous safety.

Lucid didn’t do anything. All they did is overpromise and get sued for it. Totally hyped up. Still not close to delivering and prob won’t be for a while. Maybe maybe a few cars by end of year. No chargers. No tech. Supposedly good specs with a good looking car but anyone can talk the talk

Tesla leading by far my friend. Very far. On every metric. Acceleration save 200k Porsche. Range. Charging by very very far. Tech. No current production cars come even close. Other day my jaw dropped reading that Benz eqs will charge at 200kw max. Lol. Tesla has been at @250kw for a few years. This is MB. making cars for 100 years! Sad. Hyundai ioniq ironically might be better but not in us yet. Either Tesla way far ahead of almost all.

Don't take the bait.

 

[mark95476]

Rivian is filing to go public at $80B valuation.

 

[HVM]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431522886456651778

 

[electric miles]

In all fairness to Rivian, they expect to deliver R1T’s before the November IPO. And for all we know, they may have already delivered 80 delivery vans to Amazon.

 

[nativewolf]

Tesla was tiny too. Remember that too.

Rivian doesn’t need retail to survive.

Amazon backing in both funding and order already gave Rivian a strong base.

Tesla autopilot and FSD is an liability not a selling point if Elon keeps on trying to over promise.

NHTSA and FTC is just beginning.

We have already seen Lucid putting Plaid to bed with better powertrain efficiency.

What makes everyone here think that Tesla will maintain lead when in reality other than charging network and scale. There isn’t anything that Tesla is really leading in EV space anymore.

Amazon AND Ford backing them. Ford had a fairly early stage $500 million investment when it was a $2-5 billion valuation. Now going IPO at $80B would mean ford may have another $8 billion or even $20 billion in value due to Rivian. It's another reason I only see Ford surviving among the Detroit 3. If nothing else Ford becomes Rivian and ditches all the liability in old company, I think a fairly competent management team could pull that off, Ford winds down making ICE trucks and paying pensions, Rivian winds up and Ford shareholders thank the lucky stars they did not own GM/Nikola. I've said many times that GMs investments show what it thinks of EVs...from pouch cells, to Nikola partnership they can't make the right decision on any meaningful investment/engineering decision. Ford even had sense to let Rivian alone. Brilliant.

I think Tesla's lead is on the profitability at scale. Something others lack. Tesla is making bank on a 3 and Y and can increase this with FSD sales. Rivian however, will do just fine and has (due to Tesla paving the way) a great starting point as a highly capitalized entity with a real manufacturing plant. Battery constraints will continue to hurt everyone next year, it will be a slow roll-out by necessity. At some point in a couple of years Tesla can play the all important ASP game and gut the profits for anyone else. Say Berlin and Austin at full scale in 2024. I can definitely see Tesla responding to rising competition by slashing prices.

 

[garrett5688]

Wonder how many employees will become instant millionaires and bail

 

[Zorg]

Their pre production trucks are out there.

 

[djy]

I just saw an R1T in the wild tonight here in Orange County. Second one I've seen in socal but first one was while driving the other way. Nice looking truck, although I still prefer the Cybertruck (which I've also seen in person and is much larger).

You can see on the rear pic that it has manufacturer plates from Michigan which implies they drove this cross country (unless they shipped it?).

 

[Krispykreme]

Few things.

When Tesla was tiny they were it. No competition. Now to Ian has plenty of competition.

Yes Amazon definitely helps rivian out. Will see where it goes. So far nowhere but it’s much easier making no frills vans that have a charging base and no need for tech than making a successful retail version in a very competitive segment.

Tesla AP is NOT a liability and will never be. It’s a phenomenal piece of tech. I use it constantly. Billions of safe miles driven on it by fleet. Years ahead of anything in production. Yes some issues but overall excellent. So a few people died, Billions of miles! Hits fire trucks? Yeah that sucks but is SUPER rare and will get better. Not of even close to being of statistical significance. What they don’t talk about is the driver walking away unharmed after hitting a fire truck at 75mph. Ridiculous safety.

Lucid didn’t do anything. All they did is overpromise and get sued for it. Totally hyped up. Still not close to delivering and prob won’t be for a while. Maybe maybe a few cars by end of year. No chargers. No tech. Supposedly good specs with a good looking car but anyone can talk the talk

Tesla leading by far my friend. Very far. On every metric. Acceleration save 200k Porsche. Range. Charging by very very far. Tech. No current production cars come even close. Other day my jaw dropped reading that Benz eqs will charge at 200kw max. Lol. Tesla has been at @250kw for a few years. This is MB. making cars for 100 years! Sad. Hyundai ioniq ironically might be better but not in us yet. Either Tesla way far ahead of almost all.

i really think you need to do more fact finding.

As stated before I work in the Full Driving field up to my retirement 4 months ago. I am also likely returning in the field in near future because I am pissing off my wife at home.

Tesla has nothing on the FSD side. It will always remain a L2+ platform. Tesla is moving further away from ever having a true FSD.

It’s a liability from both safety and commercial perspective. Whether you like it or now. Getting special case open by NHTSA is a super bad thing. With FTC involved now as well, anyone who has any sort of connection would already know what is the outcome.

 

[MP3Mike]

With FTC involved now as well

Since when are they involved? I know a senator asked them to be involved, but I haven't heard that they decided to do anything.