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Rivian Vs Tesla

Discussion in 'Model X' started by bayx, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. bayx

    bayx Member

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    Amazon purchases 100,000 Rivian electric vans | CarAdvice

    If Rivian can beat Tesla in build quality they can get a chunk of the EV marketshare. The game changer and real Tesla killer would be the self-driving tech that companies like Waymo can license out to the highest bidder once it's ready for prime time.

    As an ex-Tesla fan & current MX owner/TSLA shareholder, I anticipate this is bound to get plenty of dislikes!
     
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  2. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    While I disagree, I'd rather clown you through the Socratic method than be lazy with a downvote:

    1.) When will a end user owner actually take delivery of one?
    2.) How much will it cost?
    3.) How will get delivered?
    4.) Where do you get it serviced?
    5.) Where do you charge it?

    Sounds like you are ready to drop $100K payment in full and get one of these Rivians in time for Christmas or something.

    Rivian pumping is way premature.
     
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  3. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    If Rivan can deliver on the vans it will be a big deal.
    As of today how many vehicles do they have on the road? None right? Which puts Tesla more than a decade ahead of them............

    Launching with a company like Amazon might be brilliant, yes it is low margin but let's you get miles on product without public exposure to shortcomings and you can target service teams rather than having public centers. Probably a lot more forgiving on fit and finish while they figure out what they are doing too.

    Again though with zero on road now I would still call them a decade behind Tesla.
     
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  4. ajdelange

    ajdelange Member

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    Possibly by the end of 2020 - more likely in 2021

    Nudging up close to $100K

    Truck

    Wherever you like. They will rely heavily on remote diagnostics and will use something akin to Ranger service initially. If the ranger can't fix it they will put it on a truck and take it to a service center.

    Any CCS/Combo charging station but mostly, presumably, at home.

    How many cars do they have on the road today? I'd guess 20 - 25.

    I might have agreed a couple of weeks ago but with the Cox investment coming in and the Amazon order the idea of a Rivian in my driveway has become a lot more corporeal.
     
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  5. HostileHarry

    HostileHarry Member

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    Their planned service model is going to implode on them as there is no scale to that model. Look at how challenged Tesla currently is with service experience AND they have service centers. I can't imagine the pain that is going to come to Rivian with their current service approach.
     
  6. Bentesling

    Bentesling Member

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    That’s a pretty fast ramp up, from zero to 100k production. Would be awesome for EVs I’m general if they pull that off, but in all reality that is way to optimistic and we’ll likely never see one in a residential driveway sooner than a few years.
     
  7. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Where will you get a Riven serviced?
    Where will it get a charge on a road trip.
    Since it is designed for dry camping, where will it get charged in the boondocks.
    Who will do warranty work.
     
  8. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I believe we'll see Rivians in peoples drive ways a lot sooner than some of the doubters think.

    The reason is not just the money being poured into Rivian, but who that money is coming from. On the Cargo Van side you have Amazon, and on the truck side you have Ford.

    In one shape or another we're going to see Rivian stuff hit the market in a couple years.

    It's probably going to be initially expensive just like Tesla was, and just like the Porsche Taycan is now.

    But, it will come down as they run out of people to sell $100K EV trucks too.

    The other thing to keep in mind is the Electrify America charging network gets bigger every month.

    Luckily Tesla knows all this, and is likely going to counter the Rivian. The people at Rivian haven't exactly been silent about their plans. So I think a lot of the cool stuff will make it into the Tesla pickup.

    When Tesla announces the Tesla pickup there will be a number of people saying "They stole that from Rivian".
     
  9. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Agreed the Rivian has some fresh ideas and excellent capabilities, but won't compete with Tesla's current lineup.
    Believe it will bring additional customers into the EV marketplace.

    Having huge investors like Amazon and Ford will have the company being pulled in several directions at once.
    Amazon will lobby to have it make them lots of delivery trucks with unique specifications and Ford will want to use it to transform their fleet to EV before ICE dies a slow and lingering death.
     
  10. Blup85

    Blup85 Member

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    I believe that as well. but also believe that by the time Rivian gets to my pricepoint for a "usable" truck, Tesla will be there with better.. everything.
    Im very excited about the Rivian though, lots of cool stuff that Tesla now has to match!
     
  11. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    It's still well over a year before it goes into production so I don't think we have the answer to those questions yet.

    Rivian has no qualms about working with dealerships so I think the answer to most of the service/warranty work will be at dealerships. Likely Ford dealerships as I expect the two companies to share a lot of technologies if not entire "skateboard" platform.

    I wouldn't say it's designed for dry camping, but it's certainly a selling point. I doubt people who are seriously into boondock'ing will get one. But, it's great for people who are a lot more casual about it. Or those who have no issues paying for a camping site with Electrical hookup.

    Most people who buy 4x4's do so on perceptions of that they can do with them more what they'll actually use them for. The Rivian has captured peoples imagination especially with things like tank mode steering capability.

    As to charging I imagine most people will either charge at home, and they'll use the Electrify America charging spots for road trips
     
  12. azjohn

    azjohn Member

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    At the Atlanta Rivian show Scaringe was asked about the service plans, and said service will not be done at Ford dealerships
     
  13. acoste

    acoste Member

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    2 things I don't worry about Rivian are service and manufacturing. They are near Detroit, can hire experienced guys, they know how to handle these. EA helps with charging.
    The only hard thing is sourcing the batteries. I believe this is a reason why Tesla is delaying the semi.
     
  14. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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  15. ajdelange

    ajdelange Member

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    Only a few days ago.

    Scaringe reportedly said that Ford will not be involved in Rivian servicing as they want to make sure that the Rivian brand is perceived as being distinct from Ford. He did say something about "partners" though.
     
  16. ajdelange

    ajdelange Member

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    #16 ajdelange, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Life, as we know it, is possible without the Tesla SC network (though building out the SC network is as good a proof of Musk's genius as I can think of). I have ventured out past the ends of the SC net in Quebec and encountered no problems in this regard. Every village of moderate size seems to have a Tourist Information Center with a CHAdeMO/CCS charger. I have, at this point, actually used more CHAdeMO chargers than SC's.

    Abetterrouteplanner will now let you run hypothetical journeys with the Rivian vehicles so I suggest that anyone interested fiddle with that some. The first thing you will notice is that a road trip will cost you more in energy than in your ICE vehicle unless your ICE vehicle has really lousy mileage. This is because of the hideous rates EA is charging for electricity. Musk has said that the SC network will never be a profit center for Tesla and I believe that.

    They say it is designed for that and it is marketed for that but the market is really clearly the weekend urban cowboy. None the less the answer to the question is "anywhere in the boonies where you can plug it in". This, of course, includes any campground that has electric service for RV's.

    Someone posted on another forum that he'd just throw his generator and a few jerry cans in the bed and recharge with those. I laughed at first of course but then ran some numbers. If you are camping, or rather glamping, for a week and run the generator for a couple of hours each evening that's sufficient to recharge a Rivian sufficiently to get you back to a more robust charging station. There are, of course, some places where you won't be able to charge a Rivian just as there are some where you can't charge a Tesla.

    If Scaringe is smart (and I think the fact that he has brought the company to the point where it is today is pretty solid evidence that he is) Rivian will make some sort of subsidized charging available and will probably install some stations in popular but remote places. It as necessary for Rivian's marketing as it was for Tesla's that something like this be done.

    The same shops that do their repairs.
     
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  17. JanG007

    JanG007 Member

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    Bah, ordered on Amazon, Delivered by Amazon (Amazon Prime in 24h:D) and supported by user-obsessed Amazon.
    I think they might be on to something!
     
  18. JanG007

    JanG007 Member

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    Ok, was I the only one who appriciated the humor of that response? If so, never mind :D, carry on
     
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  19. Feathermerchan

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    So once EVs become more common, EA will be even worse unless you can see (in real time) how they are being used.
    Not fun driving station to station looking for an opening or waiting in line.
    I expect Tesla Truck to be to market before Rivian which will steal at least some of their customers.

    How will the service partners feel about OTA updates? Dealers classically want the owner to "bring it in".
    With existing dealer networks clearly not interesting in selling their own brand of EVs, I don't think servicing another brand w/o selling it will be on the top of their list.
     
  20. ajdelange

    ajdelange Member

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    #20 ajdelange, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Well we didn't even know that you thought it (delivery by truck) to be funny because you didn't mark it so.

    But it wasn't intended to be funny though there is some irony in a motor vehicle being delivered by a motor vehicle. Your Telsa was, unless you live very near a large port, delivered by truck though it may have been driven direct to you or to a show room from the truck. In the States many Tesla deliveries are made direct to the buyer's house by truck.

    Or maybe I should have said "lorry".
     

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