Rivian Vs Tesla

[Richbot]

Hope so, heh

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Yeah the $70,000 price tag (or $62,500 after federal tax credit) is very appealing for the R1S. I will strongly consider it when it's time for me to buy my next vehicle in 2022. The main deciding factor will be how extensive the Rivian charging network (and/or Electrify America) has become by then. My family takes a lot of road trips, including some isolated areas, so we need an extensive network.

 

[StanMI]

Just saw a mold for the Front frunk. That's the first one I've seen for any part. It's a prototype, but getting closer !!

 

[cusetownusa]

Tesla will probably drop the price of the X now that the Rivian SUV is being released (similar to the Lucid Air response)

I was wondering the same thing. The Cybertruck specs and pricing are very competitive compared to the Rivian Truck, however, the 3 row Model X is substantially more expensive then the 3 row Rivian SUV.

Obviously the Model X has other things going for it (charging network, range, etc.) compared to the Rivian, but not sure that it is worth $20k more.

If Tesla is able to make huge pickup truck for $70k and below, I would like to think they could redesign the Model X using everything they have learned over the years to make it much more affordable but still have the "luxury" feel to it. Similar to how they can make the Model Y and the MIC Model 3 a lot cheaper than the Fremont Model 3.

We are in the market for a 3 row SUV but I am not willing to pay $90k for the Model X. I will consider the Rivian SUV for $70k ($63k after rebate), but would prefer a Tesla. Ultimately, we will probably be forced to buy an ICE 3 row SUV as we can get a fully loaded model for under $50k.

 

[Richbot]

Model X is the Cayenne to Model S's Panamera, a car with a tall body and bigger tires. it's the Cayenne of EV's until they make a cayenne EV.

Rivian's stuff won't be able to compete dynamically IMO, soon as there's a curve anyway. I think they're only talked about in the same sentence because they're both electric and the 3-row SUEV class is currently a class of one, and still will be for another year.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Model X is the Cayenne to Model S's Panamera, a car with a tall body and bigger tires. it's the Cayenne of EV's until they make a cayenne EV.

Rivian's stuff won't be able to compete dynamically IMO, soon as there's a curve anyway. I think they're only talked about in the same sentence because they're both electric and the 3-row SUEV class is currently a class of one, and still will be for another year.

What makes you say the Rivian won't be able to compete with a model X? Based on the specs it's equal or better in almost every respect, except for Range which is still competitive at over 300 miles. All for $20,000 less than a model X. That's very competitive in my view.

 

[Richbot]

It's 5-6" higher off the ground, with a bigger, taller, less concentrated body, likely 1000lb heavier overall, and with hub motors the unsprung weight at each corner is going to be absurdly large compared to Model X's central-mounted, half-shaft based setup. It's not going to go around a corner anywhere near as well as Model X. It'll be Tahoe vs. Cayenne.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

It's 5-6" higher off the ground, with a bigger, taller, less concentrated body, likely 1000lb heavier overall, and with hub motors the unsprung weight at each corner is going to be absurdly large compared to Model X's central-mounted, half-shaft based setup. It's not going to go around a corner anywhere near as well as Model X. It'll be Tahoe vs. Cayenne.

So when you say it doesn't compete with Tesla, you mean on a track? I guess I don't really care how my 7-seat SUV handles on a track so I can't comment, but to each their own. I am more concerned with cargo space, range, interior finishes, and ride comfort than how fast it goes.

 

[azjohn]

It's 5-6" higher off the ground, with a bigger, taller, less concentrated body, likely 1000lb heavier overall, and with hub motors the unsprung weight at each corner is going to be absurdly large compared to Model X's central-mounted, half-shaft based setup. It's not going to go around a corner anywhere near as well as Model X. It'll be Tahoe vs. Cayenne.

Rivian doesn't have hub motors, they have a similar design to Tesla with half shafts

 

[cusetownusa]

So when you say it doesn't compete with Tesla, you mean on a track? I guess I don't really care how my 7-seat SUV handles on a track so I can't comment, but to each their own. I am more concerned with cargo space, range, interior finishes, and ride comfort than how fast it goes.

I agree...with the $20k difference in price (not even including the federal tax rebate), it would be an easy decision to choose the Rivian SUV over the Model X. They seem to be about the same dimensions with probably more cargo room in the Rivian and in my opinion has a nicer interior and a better look overall. As long as the charging network is sufficient in my area it will be an easy decision for us.

 

[Richbot]

Thanks for the note on the hub motors, I could have sworn that was in a press release somewhere.

So when you say it doesn't compete with Tesla, you mean on a track? I guess I don't really care how my 7-seat SUV handles on a track so I can't comment, but to each their own. I am more concerned with cargo space, range, interior finishes, and ride comfort than how fast it goes.

No I'm talking about how it goes around a corner. How a car handles. You know, handling. I assume you have to go around corners and such every day you drive? Same with braking - unless they have some magic at their disposal that Tesla doesn't, bigger car + bigger battery = bigger number on the scales, probably about 1000lb with teh 135 pack, if the Audi is any guide to what other OEM's are able to achieve with a BEV compared to Tesla. The 180kwh pack will probably be pushing close to what a 3/4 ton Diesel weighs. And then you look at how they carry the weight, particularly the Rivian's ride height, and the X carries its weight quite a bit lower, both in the body, which is just more compact, and critically, in how high off the ground the heaviest component, the battery, sits - even at its lowest suspension setting the Rivian is carrying its weight around the same height as the Very High setting on Model X. That's fine, different missions.

They're not in the same class on that front. One is a tall car, one is a trucklike utility vehicle. Insert your comparison here, Range Rover to X6, yada. That big of a discrepancy in how they carry their weight and how much of it there is means very different characters from behind the wheel. That more "carlike" feel might not matter to you, but it matters to a lot of people, otherwise we'd all still be driving body on frame SUV's

Like I said up above, *I'd probably have a Rivian on order right now* if they had been making cars for more than negative 1 years. I don't particularly need my SUV to go around a corner better than a Rivian can, if it can also tow my car hauler, but X is the only show in town right now and I'll enjoy the dynamic superiority in the mean time, and curse the doors. They're two cars at similar price points and similar power sources, with very different missions.

 

[HyperionMark]

Rivian looks like it has some winners for sure. Would definitely consider it if I lived in populous areas and didn't need it to go on long road trips. There are still big swaths of the country where there are zero CCS chargers and even bigger swaths where there are some but only 1-4 at each station. That somewhat works now but not in another year or two. Still comes down to the Supercharging network for me.

 

[azjohn]

Thanks for the note on the hub motors, I could have sworn that was in a press release somewhere.




No I'm talking about how it goes around a corner. How a car handles. You know, handling. I assume you have to go around corners and such every day you drive? Same with braking - unless they have some magic at their disposal that Tesla doesn't, bigger car + bigger battery = bigger number on the scales, probably about 1000lb with teh 135 pack, if the Audi is any guide to what other OEM's are able to achieve with a BEV compared to Tesla. The 180kwh pack will probably be pushing close to what a 3/4 ton Diesel weighs. And then you look at how they carry the weight, particularly the Rivian's ride height, and the X carries its weight quite a bit lower, both in the body, which is just more compact, and critically, in how high off the ground the heaviest component, the battery, sits - even at its lowest suspension setting the Rivian is carrying its weight around the same height as the Very High setting on Model X. That's fine, different missions.

They're not in the same class on that front. One is a tall car, one is a trucklike utility vehicle. Insert your comparison here, Range Rover to X6, yada. That big of a discrepancy in how they carry their weight and how much of it there is means very different characters from behind the wheel. That more "carlike" feel might not matter to you, but it matters to a lot of people, otherwise we'd all still be driving body on frame SUV's

Like I said up above, *I'd probably have a Rivian on order right now* if they had been making cars for more than negative 1 years. I don't particularly need my SUV to go around a corner better than a Rivian can, if it can also tow my car hauler, but X is the only show in town right now and I'll enjoy the dynamic superiority in the mean time, and curse the doors. They're two cars at similar price points and similar power sources, with very different missions.

You might have been thinking about Lordstown truck, it does have hub motors and has a similar look to Rivian

 

[azjohn]

Rivian looks like it has some winners for sure. Would definitely consider it if I lived in populous areas and didn't need it to go on long road trips. There are still big swaths of the country where there are zero CCS chargers and even bigger swaths where there are some but only 1-4 at each station. That somewhat works now but not in another year or two. Still comes down to the Supercharging network for me.

I looked on the Electrify America map and the closest to you are in Nebraska. When I lived in Arizona there wasnt much unless you go south near Tucson, I have since moved to the east coast and they are everywhere

 

[cusetownusa]

I just priced out the R1S with the 7 seats and came to $70,000 before the $7,500 fed rebate. Compared to the 6 seater model X that was about $87,500, this seems like a great deal with a total price difference of over $25,000.

Am I missing something? Besides the charging network, what would make someone spend an extra $25k when cross shopping 3 row midsize EV SUVs?

 

[ohmman]

I just priced out the R1S with the 7 seats and came to $70,000 before the $7,500 fed rebate. Compared to the 6 seater model X that was about $87,500, this seems like a great deal with a total price difference of over $25,000.

Am I missing something? Besides the charging network, what would make someone spend an extra $25k when cross shopping 3 row midsize EV SUVs?

7 seater Model X is cheaper and more comparable ($81,990). Cost of ownership is potentially higher on the R1S because it will have a higher consumption. Range is better on the X.

Overall, I think the R1S is a compelling vehicle for many buyers, but I don't think it's quite so clear cut as an obvious choice over the X. That's coming from someone who has a 2020 X LR+ and a reservation for an R1T.

 

[Sonus]

I just priced out the R1S with the 7 seats and came to $70,000 before the $7,500 fed rebate. Compared to the 6 seater model X that was about $87,500, this seems like a great deal with a total price difference of over $25,000.

Am I missing something? Besides the charging network, what would make someone spend an extra $25k when cross shopping 3 row midsize EV SUVs?

Great deal or not, Electrify America network sucks. I owned an Ipace for 10 months, 50% of the time when I tried to DC charge it in the Electrify America network it didn't work. So how much money does it worth to you to go on a road trip and make sure you can charge your car when needed?

 

[cusetownusa]

Yes, charging network would be my biggest concern as this would be our family car.

Just trying to justify spending $87,000+ on a vehicle. That’s a lot of money for a car.

 

[Richbot]

The change in consumption pulling a trailer might be slightly less horrendous with it being a big brick already, heh

 

[HyperionMark]

Some good points above. Makes me think Tesla will lower the price of the X before next year when these are available.