This is the one thing I would bet against. I suspect they include FSD in the founders edition. Referral award program aside, Tesla won’t want to alienate buyers that paid an extra $50k. They need more than just unique paint colors.
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Roadster 2023
- Thread starter Ian Spencer
- Start date
HankLloydRight
No Roads
That makes sense for several reasons, including minimizing the tax burden on the winners.
Unlikely. Tesla can't actually enforce this if I want to register the car in the name of my business/LLC. Then after purchase, the LLC members can be changed/transferred without incurring a resale event or sales tax.
That's not how the taxes on the awards work. It's not a "gift" and gift taxes are not part of this. The award is treated as regular income, and Tesla will just send you a 1099-misc at the end of the year for the FMV of the car. It's up to you to report that on your tax return and pay the tax at your regular tax bracket (although you may owe quarterly estimated taxes if you are not in a safe-harbor from the previous year). Of course, if you have a $250k income boost that year due to the Roadster, you'll be in one of the top income tax brackets. For 2022, that's s 24% of the amount over $172,750 for married/joint filers. There will not be any kind of income tax collected at the time of award transfer (other than sales tax).
Again, it's not a gift. It's regular, ordinary income reported on a 1099-misc. See above. What would be nice (but also unlikely) is that Tesla offers a gross-up to help winners pay the income taxes. I won an award from Amex several years back worth >$5k and Amex sent me a check for the taxes on that award. Of course that itself is taxable. There's a simple formula to calculate tax gross-ups for awards like this. In my case, the check Amex sent was more than the actual taxes I had to pay, so bonus.
That would be nice, but it would have to be a really slow rollout to make a difference. There's still going to be plenty of NGR award cars for sale just so the winners can pay the tax on the award. And you think it's going to be a reduced price? I'm thinking the first group of Founders NGR award cars will sell for a significant premium. Unique color(s) and "Perceived scarcity".
Definitely won't be included (IMO). Tesla will certainly try to upsell award winners on this.
This is a toss-up, could go either way.
Couldn't they just... refuse to give it to you if you don't register it in your own name?
zanary
Active Member
It's not that they could, it's that you would have to comply with the Terms & Conditions.
Those who have received their monthly winning of a "Model Y" referral award had to sign a T&C document. That document has the following.
- It makes reference to "You" the "Winner" in the first paragraph.
- Section (1) indicate that "you are responsible for any government fees or taxes related to the Vehicle, however the base price, any configuration options chosen and included by Tesla and standard destination and documentation fees are included in the prize.
- Section (2) talks about eligibility. Normal boiler plate including completing and signing a W9 form for tax purposes, being 18 years old, you Cann't be an employee of Tesla or any subsidiary, an employee of agents or suppliers or any immediate family member
- Section (3) Is the Prize Restrictions which talks about the standard warranty, taking delivery with 5 days of Tesla notifying y ou that it is available for delivery, no trade-in will be accepted, you cannot convert prize to cash value or credit to be applied to a different Tesla, prize is non-transferable, and may not be traded in or returned for cash value.
- Section 4 is about claiming the Prize. Again more boiler plate, but one interesting statement appears. "You may decline the accept the Prize within 5 days of being notified of it's purchase price. Tesla shall have no obligation to provide you with an alternative prize in the event that you decline the prize." This one is also interesting "You will sign all Purchase Agreements and delivery and registration documents prior to taking delivery of the Vehicle and agree that the Vehicle will be registered in your name".
Things could change with the T&C for the Roadster, however with it being more expensive and far less rare, it would be more restrictive.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I’m not sure how they can deny registering a bought car in any way the buyer wants. If that’s an LLC for business purposes, I’d really like to see Tesla deny selling a car for that reason.
As this is a not-yet-signed contract, the winner would have the opportunity to adjust/change the definition of “you” and “your”. Tesla can’t define those for the opposing signatory.
zanary
Active Member
I thought so to, but I read the full T&C. You have no option to adjust it or there's no indication that you have an option.
For the Model Y Referral Award, you are notify that you have won. You are then given the T&C and have to sign it. You then can use the online configurator to place your order (ie, config with options) your Referral Model Y. You're told the price so you can then work with your tax specialists on what your obligation to the state/feds are. When your Tesla is ready, you have 5 days to pick it up. The "Definition" of You/Winner is very clear the top of the T&C that you have to sign.
Section #9 reads.
9) Miscellaneous
If there is any reason to believe that there has been a breach of these Terns & Conditions, Tesla may, at it's sole discretion, reserve the right to exclude you from participation. In the event of a dispute, the conduct or results of the program, or any other matter relating to the program, the decision of Tesla shall be final and unchallengeable and no correspondence or discussion shall be entered into, or read given in respect to any decision made by Tesla. Tesla reserves the right to hold voice, suspect, cancel or amend all or any part of theProgram where it becomes necessary to do so.
We at least can use the Model Y Referral Program T&C which was run concurrently with both Roadster's referral rewards (quarterly, and 55/105 referral roadster reward). It may change and become less restrictive, or maybe it will be similar if not more stringent T&C.
Note: I think we're talking about the free "Referral Tesla Roadster" and not a "bought car for MSRP". I'm curious what happens for those partial referral winner that get a discounts in increments of 5% off the MSRP of a Referral Test Roadster. There may be a separate T&C for that...
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I'm not sure what this means, now that the referral program is all but dead.
I'm sure you'd have the option to change the signatory on the contract before signing. I just don't see how they can force you to accept an award "in your name" if for tax or other financial purposes, you need to register it to a business.
zanary
Active Member
I hope you are right however the T&C for the Model at referral reward is very clear. You are the winner and You have to register it in your name. Worse case, you can always transfer it to your business after the fact.
I read it as You won the award and not Your Business. Let’s see what transpired in 2023/2024.
The referral reward program is dead, yes. We did not sign any T&C for the program from what I recall so I think the statement is there to make sure you comply with the T&C as written once you actually sign it. Failure to sign it means you forfeit the reward.
I thought we’re talking about a free car? You wouldn’t have “bought” the free car since it’s free. Either you want it and will accept it, or you don’t accept and they don’t give you a free car.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Sure, but none of these registration requirements or stipulations existed during the referral program. Not sure they can legally change the rules retroactively. Well, they can, and it's likely not legal, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
zanary
Active Member
We never saw any rules. No one signed the T&C or any sort of conditions as part of the referral program. None are presented to referral owners until you are in the process of ordering/getting the reward. The Model Y Referral winner have to sign the T&C in order to start the process and by signing you have to agreed to ALL of the items in there (including non transferable clause). Until then, you have no contract with Tesla.
If I'm wrong, can you send us an image of the T&C you're referring to that have the stipulations? I have a copy of the Model Y T&C that are presented to the award winner as the 1st set in obtaining the referral prize. I'd like to compare them and see what's different between the Model Y Referral and the future Roadster Referral program.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Obviously I don't have any T&C, so that's a dumb question to ask. But the rules of the referral program were clearly published, and no such stipulations existed. All I'm saying, for the last time, is that if they put in harsh stipulations like that, there are always ways around it. We shall see, obviously.
zanary
Active Member
Understood. For the record, I don't think they are hard stipulations. You can always transfer it from your person to a company as needed after the fact. I think that is the best thing to do here. The Model Y T&C are very specific.
As one of the first Model S buyers, that's indeed what they did to Signature reservation holders. Signature reservations were $40k, regular reservations were $5k. The only thing Signature reservation holders got different was the option for Signature Red paint and white interior....and the Signature badge.
I assume they were also delivered before the non-signature reservations.
But I honestly don’t know if that’s a good thing or not.
zanary
Active Member
Same thing for the founders edition of the Model X. Special color, special badge, and get it first.
Speaking as Founder's Model S owner and former Signature Model X owner, not, if quality is your key. But they have matured a lot as a company (I think).
TorqueMonster
Member
zanary
Active Member
Nothing recently. I expect we might hear something in CYQ4 or CYQ1.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Neh, Elon is deemphasizing talking about Tesla cars and even FSD, he wants his fans to pay attention to the humanoid robot Optimus now. I'm guessing promising Roadster or FSD for too long makes people yawn when he keeps talking about them, plus competition has already left Tesla FSD in the dust (number of companies have L4 and L5 systems on the road, including regulatory permissions to offer for-profit robo-taxi, while Tesla still has an L2 system). So Elon is now on the "Optimus is going to be worth more than the car and FSD business combined!" kick. Not at all unusual for Elon, just stop talking about his failed promises (but never, ever admit the failure of course). Roadster might just go the way of the charging snake for example.
