Roadster 3.0

[dhrivnak]

I have noticed a quirk since the 3.0 upgrade is charging takes a lot longer. Before there was only a very short time of tapering the charging current. But now the car seems to drop to 9 amps or less for about an hour. I get 98% of my charge just fine then the last 2% seems to take over an hour. Have others noticed this?

 

[Msjulie]

yep .... was told this is the way it is supposed to work but I find it pretty annoying Often can’t finish adding 50 miles in 4 hours ( work imposed limit on charger time )

 

[Nvbob]

Please help us make a decision.

Our Roadster is in for service because it would not charge so, it was found to need a PEM replacement. This will be fourth replacement over six and one half years. The first two lasted the majority of the time until this year. The last two were this year.

Our present CAC is about 140 and a standard charge gives about 167-170 miles with a range charge of about 200 miles. We just went over 50,000 miles and it is a daily driver.

The last PEM had to be brought in from Japan and this one is coming from the Netherlands. My SC tried to use a 3.0 PEM without success so, the Netherlands one (2.x one) will be here next week.

Our ESA expires in May 2018 which means any further repairs will be on us. The replacement PEM has a one year warranty for any issues.

We were looking to do the 3.0 upgrade after the new year (probably May). The 3.0 carries a three year warranty on the PEM and ESS, per the SC.

Our SC can do the upgrade but it will take about three weeks for all the parts to arrive. At present we have a MS as a loaner and we hope to be able to use it until the upgrade can be done.

We are concerned with the increased scarcity of replacements. This will also be a financial stretch at present.

So, is it worth it to do the upgrade instead of having the PEM replaced now?

 

[ibcs]

Please clarify with your SC that the PEM is covered with the 3.0 upgrade. My understanding was only the parts involved in the upgrade are covered not the whole PEM. The 3.0 upgrade is fantastic, just make sure to get the warranty items in writing.

 

[Nvbob]

Please clarify with your SC that the PEM is covered with the 3.0 upgrade. My understanding was only the parts involved in the upgrade are covered not the whole PEM. The 3.0 upgrade is fantastic, just make sure to get the warranty items in writing.

We will be discussing the PEM replacement/3.0 upgrade with them this upcoming week. We will double check what is covered and, of course, get it in writing. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[ecarfan]

The last PEM had to be brought in from Japan and this one is coming from the Netherlands.

Your report, and reports by other Roadster owners of long waits to get a PEM replacement really concerns me.

The 3.0 carries a three year warranty on the PEM and ESS, per the SC.

I would get that in writing, because I am doubtful that is true.

So, is it worth it to do the upgrade instead of having the PEM replaced now?

I am happy I got the 3.0 battery a year and a half ago. If you need more range, get it. If you don’t need more range, I don’t see why someone would spend that much money on a new battery.

 

[gregd]

Hi Bob,

With your car having a propensity to eat PEMs, I would first ask why. Either the quality of PEMs has gone way down with your replacements (which would be bad news for everyone), or there's something about your car or your environment that tends to cause them to fail. Has Tesla given you any information about the failures that might explain what's going on? Any commonality among the root failures? I'd want to know that before considering an upgrade, as the root cause might have implications on the new battery and/or PEM. If you're only doing it to get a 3 yr warranty, that's a very expensive ESA.

That said, your car and mine are similar in CAC and mileage. I've been considering the 3.0 upgrade as well, as it would enable easier travel to visit my kids. Mainly, I'm watching the CAC as it drops (just crossed 140, a few months ago), looking for a "knee". Everything else seems good. It's torture.

I'm on my second PEM, by the way, the first one replaced because of burned PEM fan connector contacts. Electrically, it was fine.

 

[Nvbob]

Has Tesla given you any information about the failures that might explain what's going on? Any commonality among the root failures? I'd want to know that before considering an upgrade, as the root cause might have implications on the new battery and/or PEM.

Greg,

As to the specific cause, they have not said but, we will be discussing it when we talk this upcoming week.

We all have noticed parts are getting scarce.

It would also be nice to know just how long this upgrade will be available because we would put it off a little longer.

 

[gregd]

We all have noticed parts are getting scarce.

It would also be nice to know just how long this upgrade will be available because we would put it off a little longer.

Ah, the fear that if you wait too long, it won't be available. My thought on this is that I'm not too concerned. (I hope I'm right!) My logic:

1. The battery itself is "new" (remanufactured from returned ESS and new cells), so even though it's built-to-order, we know of no limit on availability
2. The PEM is largely re-manufactured from returns. One new board installed, new firmware. The new board is not inherently limited, and the returned ones are fodder for the rest.
3. While perhaps not legally obliged to, support for the Roadster is on-going, with no announced end. Public relations is my "wing-man" on this. I think the damage to Tesla's mission would be huge compared to the cost of on-going support, at least for a few years. So worst case I can imagine a day when the original battery may not be repairable due to lack of old cells, but the "repair" would still be available with the 3.0 battery.

I am more concerned about the other parts of the car (e.g. VDS, APS, body panels) than the battery and PEM, since they don't seem to have a remanufacturing pipeline. So, my strategy is to wait for that knee to indicate that the original battery is about done, and then jump to the 3.0. Either that, or wait for a need to make long trips on a more regular basis (the en-route charging annoyance factor). As things are going, the later may be the one to determine when to jump.

What have I mis-assumed?

 

[dpeilow]

Since I got my new battery I have been pretty sure it is not making maximum power. I've had stuff keeping up with me that really shouldn't be able to. Yesterday was an Outlander PHEV (although I had a slight TC-limited wobble coming out of a roundabout before that).

Anyway I put the torque/horsepower screen on and watched the peak in performance mode (nice and cool) with a battery that was close to fully charged in standard mode. The highest I saw when stamping on the accelerator was 244 hp. How does that compare to others?

 

[dhrivnak]

That is close as my HP is 248 and I saw a slight boost in performance with the 3.0 package.

 

[hcsharp]

3. While perhaps not legally obliged to, support for the Roadster is on-going, with no announced end.

When it comes to the battery they do in fact have a legal requirement to continue support for at least 10 years after the last Roadsters were sold. The battery replacement plans extend 10 years from the date of purchase. CARB states also require battery support for at least 8 years.

 

[gregd]

When it comes to the battery they do in fact have a legal requirement to continue support for at least 10 years after the last Roadsters were sold. The battery replacement plans extend 10 years from the date of purchase. CARB states also require battery support for at least 8 years.

Oh, right. Forgot to mention that. So 2021-ish, assuming the last car sold was sold with the battery replacement. But I'm thinking the plan might have terminated earlier? In any case, we've got a couple of years to be more-or-less worry free about the battery and its upgrade potential.

At least, that's what I'm telling myself. Not going to panic. Yet.

 

[dpeilow]

So who, err, regrets blowing 20k on the 3.0 this morning?

 

[dhrivnak]

Not I as I have a great car I can drive today. And next year and the following year all for 1/3 the cost.

 

[Lloyd]

@Timothy, thanks for the credit for the charge! All TMC members are welcome to plug in for free during office hours.

 

[ecarfan]

Very helpful post and makes me feel better about keeping my Roadster going for five or ten years until I can afford to buy a used 2020 Roadster.

However...where do the new PEM boards come from? Surely those are custom boards, Tesla can’t just buy them from a third party manufacturer, right?

1. The battery itself is "new" (remanufactured from returned ESS and new cells), so even though it's built-to-order, we know of no limit on availability
2. The PEM is largely re-manufactured from returns. One new board installed, new firmware. The new board is not inherently limited, and the returned ones are fodder for the rest.
3. While perhaps not legally obliged to, support for the Roadster is on-going, with no announced end. Public relations is my "wing-man" on this. I think the damage to Tesla's mission would be huge compared to the cost of on-going support, at least for a few years. So worst case I can imagine a day when the original battery may not be repairable due to lack of old cells, but the "repair" would still be available with the 3.0 battery.

I am more concerned about the other parts of the car (e.g. VDS, APS, body panels) than the battery and PEM, since they don't seem to have a remanufacturing pipeline.

 

[Msjulie]

wouldn't it be cool to have a 'modern' PEM - new tech components to do the job? probably a bit smaller some of them, more room for cooling? dreaming...

 

[ecarfan]

So who, err, regrets blowing 20k on the 3.0 this morning?

Not me. Very very happy to have my 3.0 battery for the extremely useful range and the peace of mind.

The new Roadster is not only years away, it is also light years away from my purchase capability! I will have to wait for a 5-year old used 2020 Roadster. Patience, young Jedi...

 

[gregd]

However...where do the new PEM boards come from? Surely those are custom boards, Tesla can’t just buy them from a third party manufacturer, right?

So, an assumption on my part, but based on my experience in a major high-tech equipment manufacturer. Parts sourcing is a big deal in manufacturing, so my assumption is that Tesla wouldn't knowingly offer the 3.0 upgrade with a parts sourcing issue. So, either the board is reworked from the returned PEM, or it's a new board with new components that are readily available. Either way, the new board is no more limited than the recycled PEM that it is being put into, which is a 1-for-1 trade-in for every upgrade purchased.

That said, they presumably figured that some percentage (less than all) of the 2,500-ish Roadsters will ultimately get the upgrade. That's a bit of data that I have not heard, and therein is the risk. We just have to hope that they aimed well (if not a little high) on that estimate, both for the board, and the battery cells it supports.