Roadster 3.0

[tomsax]

To anyone who thinks it should be easy to add Supercharging to the Roadster, I'd like to add my perspective from a similar, much less challenging, project Cathy and I started in 2011: converting the Roadster's proprietary inlet to J1772.

As you can see from reading the updated first post on that thread, the project was a total technical success: we built an inlet replacement and cable with added circuitry to handle the J1772 proximity switch. The cost for a professionally manufactured cable would have been comparable to the cost of Tesla's adapter cable.

It was also a complete failure. For little reasons that weren't at all obvious when we started, it became impractical to put into production. Model S using a new proprietary plug instead of J1772 reduced interest in switching Roadsters to J1772. J plugs have a stupid shape that doesn't work well with the shape of the body panel around the Roadster's inlet. The Roadster 2.0 conversion turned out to be hard because of a completely unexpected part sourcing issue. Henry Sharp came out with the brilliant CAN adapter that he was able to put into production at a great price.

Obviously, these issues don't apply to the Supercharging idea, but I'm sure there's a wide gap between saying "I'm sure it's easy" and producing a product that people will buy.

That said, I wish "I Want Roadster Supercharging" was its own thread as it's not part of the Roadster 3.0 upgrade announcement.

 

[Doug_G]

Sounds good, but I'm not fishing out all the Supercharger-related discussions to make a new thread!!! Someone please feel free to create a "I Want Roadster Supercharging" thread...

 

[bonnie]

Sounds good, but I'm not fishing out all the Supercharger-related discussions to make a new thread!!! Someone please feel free to create a "I Want Roadster Supercharging" thread...

I'd be happier with a 'Roadster Supercharging? ... I'd Rather Have Tesla Spend the Money Elsewhere' thread.

 

[tomsax]

Sounds good, but I'm not fishing out all the Supercharger-related discussions to make a new thread!!! Someone please feel free to create a "I Want Roadster Supercharging" thread...

Done. Roadster Supercharging?

Can we now use this thread to discuss things that are in the Roadster 3.0 upgrade announcement?

 

[PokerBroker]

Done. Roadster Supercharging?

Can we now use this thread to discuss things that are in the Roadster 3.0 upgrade announcement?

And I for one will leave that thread alone for all the people who want to waste their time. I waste enough time here already

 

[stevejust]

And I'm not even going to address your hyperbolic comment of 'I don't think I understand anything of what you're saying in this thread'. No need to be rude, especially when others have understood exactly what I said.

I wasn't trying to be rude, but the comment above makes me understand what you've posted in this thread even less. In another post, you said:

They didn't need to do this, any of this.

But in the quotation above, you said:

What they are doing is meeting an obligation by sourcing a battery to replace obsolete tech to those who bought the battery replacement option.

And this is where I'm having trouble following what you're saying. Either Tesla had an obligation, or they didn't. (They did.) Which is why I called this "Merry Christmas" more like getting socks and underwear than something to be really hyped up about.

I guess the biggest problem is all of our collective understanding about how new battery pack is going to be. If it is really just a question of dropping in the new cells where the old cells were and keeping everything else the same -- that's a different story. When I read the announcement, I thought we were talking about a more extensive new pack to accommodate the new cells. I was picturing a change to the cooling system and maybe many other parts of the pack.

Thanks to this post, I now have the factors I was looking for, so thanks to @scaesare for beating the dead horse just a little longer to catch me up to speed on where we're at.

But now that this thread is only supposed to focus on what the 3.0 upgrade is, and not what people were hoping for, I guess it can go to rest. New cells, retrofit aerokit and LRR tires.
Socks, underwear and... a necktie.

Unless of course the 3.0 upgrade is $8,000. Then, I suppose that would really be a very Merry Christmas present after all.

And again, I'm not complaining. Everyone needs socks and underwear. But I'm not going to fall over myself to say this is amazing when they pre-sold replacement packs when the car was new -- and lo and behold -- couldn't get the same old cells to honor that obligation.

 

[bonnie]

This is just ridiculous & I'm not sure why you have a focus here ... but I'll give it one last shot.

The two statements of mine that you quoted,

They didn't need to do this, any of this.

What they are doing is meeting an obligation by sourcing a battery to replace obsolete tech to those who bought the battery replacement option.

Are not in conflict, unless you choose to view them as standalone statements. But what I wrote is part of a larger statement.

So to clarify, for you: Tesla did not have to go above and beyond on the battery replacement. The contract (which I have) is only to replace at the same capacity, not above and beyond. So no, they didn't need to go for 400 miles. My second point is that since they DID have to replace the battery, picking the battery to replace seems the logical step.

 

[pharma5]

My very belated 2 cents, apologies for any redundant stuff. I was happiest to have the clear intent at least of continued support in the closing:

"We are confident that this will not be the last update the Roadster will receive in the many years to come.":biggrin:

The 3.0 may not be my first choice in upgrades (too soon to say, need more info esp pricetag / warranty), but I'm d*mn happy it's coming, and even moreso for the line above. Each of us has to do cost/benefit when the details are out, but Thank You Tesla for giving us something that will help keep the fleet of Roadsters on the road while making them better at the same time. My main "ask" is that the 3.0 upgrades are a la carte, since I'm in the camp of wanting to keep the car's appearance intact and expect aero is a no-go on that.

One other point: with JB's recent blog post on Model S family range, I hope the corresponding info/analysis for Roadster 3.0 will also get its own blog post when the testing is done. (Seriously, all the right topics are there...):http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family

 

[ggr]

It's like you're in my head. Stop that!

I think lots of us are in your head. Let's have a party!

 

[bolosky]

Personally, I'll bet most owners think, "sounds nice, how much does it cost?"

Yep, that's me.

I was initially a little disappointed with the 70 kWh number, but thinking about it more I realized that if I had the choice of more energy capacity or better efficiency, better efficiency is the superior option. With better efficiency, you get more miles of charge per hour, and less money spent for electricity. The downside is that the effects of, say, the heater or a/c or going the wrong speed will be magnified. Still, I'm happy with what they did.

And, of course, the answer to why they didn't use Model S cells is something that someone pointed out here a little earlier: the Model S cells don't have protection in the cell, and the Roadster does. So if you used Model S cells you'd be risking a fire, which is just about the last thing they want to do. (Or, I suppose, you could completely redesign the ESS, but that's about as likely as supercharging.)

 

[markwj]

Now things have settled down, and we know what is coming, anyone want to make a guess at what this will cost?

My guesses:

* US$20k-30k for the battery
* US$5k-10k for the aero stuff

No need to guess how much the tyres cost, and they can presumably be upgraded next time they are worn out and need replacing anyway. That won't be too long given the speed at which roadsters chew through tyres!

 

[TEG]

I think lots of us are in your head. Let's have a party!

 

[ibcs]

Now things have settled down, and we know what is coming, anyone want to make a guess at what this will cost?

My guesses:

* US$20k-30k for the battery
* US$5k-10k for the aero stuff

No need to guess how much the tyres cost, and they can presumably be upgraded next time they are worn out and need replacing anyway. That won't be too long given the speed at which roadsters chew through tyres!

I was hoping 15-25k for the complete package.

 

[pharma5]

My guesses:

* US$20k-30k for the battery

Sure hope the battery part is cheaper than that, at least with trade-in of a functional pack with normal wear & tear. Maybe $10k-$15k w/working trade-in pack? That might get a decent take rate. (Otherwise feels like all the engineering and labor were done on a cell type with too little mah.)

That said, if my pack were completely inoperable I'd eat the $20k-$30k to get back on the road.

 

[qwk]

Some of you guys are in fantasy land.

The Roadster isn't going to be able to supercharge-Ever!

Now that we got that out of the way, Tesla offered the Roadster replacement packs for $12k paid 7 years in advance, when they were hurting for cash. This was a very limited offer, when they were hurting for cash. Did I mention they offered this deal only when they were hurting for cash?

Now, can anybody show me a Tesla part that is sold by Tesla for cheap? Just one will suffice. Didn't think so. This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$. A Model S door handle costs $2k for goodness sake.

 

[pharma5]

This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$.

So your number is...?

 

[qwk]

So your number is...?

$40-50k for the full upgrade. I doubt they will offer it separately, unless you bought the battery replacement option.

 

[markwj]

Some of you guys are in fantasy land.

The Roadster isn't going to be able to supercharge-Ever!

Now that we got that out of the way, Tesla offered the Roadster replacement packs for $12k paid 7 years in advance, when they were hurting for cash. This was a very limited offer, when they were hurting for cash. Did I mention they offered this deal only when they were hurting for cash?

Now, can anybody show me a Tesla part that is sold by Tesla for cheap? Just one will suffice. Didn't think so. This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$. A Model S door handle costs $2k for goodness sake.

How about two examples: I got a radio wiring harness for less than US$20, and a pair of replacement leather door handle trims for not much more. Pricing is very reasonable for a lot of the Lotus sourced stuff, but the Tesla-specific parts are premium. PEMs US$11K? ESS US$40K?

The problem here is that everyone knows the battery is the big threat to EVs. The elephant in the room. Fears about longevity, capacity loss, resale values, etc, all impact the popularity of the offering and sales of EVs in general. If Tesla sells this at say US$60K, they are just going to prove the nay-sayers right (that is approaching the price of a brand new 60kWh Model S). Just look what happened with all those US$40K brick stories. It will be very interesting to see what happens, but I really think that they can do a sheet-level replacement for US$20K-30K (given what we know about cell prices, and the old tech we know is selling for US$40K).

 

[hcsharp]

Some of you guys are in fantasy land.

The Roadster isn't going to be able to supercharge-Ever!

Now that we got that out of the way, Tesla offered the Roadster replacement packs for $12k paid 7 years in advance, when they were hurting for cash. This was a very limited offer, when they were hurting for cash. Did I mention they offered this deal only when they were hurting for cash?

Now, can anybody show me a Tesla part that is sold by Tesla for cheap? Just one will suffice. Didn't think so. This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$. A Model S door handle costs $2k for goodness sake.

Yep. ^^
If some of you are disappointed now, wait until the pricing comes out. But I predict most of us will pony up and buy it anyway! :smile: And any disappointment will last about 3.7 seconds.:wink:

 

[pharma5]

$40-50k for the full upgrade. I doubt they will offer it separately, unless you bought the battery replacement option.

Well, I can't say it ain't possible. Figured refurb old packs are treated as ~$40k, so my WAG put $10k-15k differential above that for a new pack - basically your number. Presumed separate availability. Also presumed one could get $40k for an old pack, and not whatever they'd give below that as trade-in. (Prob that's the fantasy:frown.

Also see lots of reason for them to avoid markup and/or discount it. Straight-up PR, since they don't advertise traditionally - this would be the ad for upgradeable tech. And hopefully less distraction, headache, and at some level less cost for continued warranty and maintenance support. If you just ran out of old packs, old sheets, old bricks, old cells, etc., the next warranty claim means you need to make a new pack for nothing. Or you can do the work early and sell some new ones at modest price and restock the 'spare parts' bin.

Prob a couple of months of mystery to go, with a SF-LA demo in between...