Roadster 3.0

[tomsax]

I have a high level of confidence that in a decade my 2013 Model S will be able to get a battery pack replacement because there will be hundreds of thousands of Model S on the roads. Until very recently I had a high level of confidence that my 1.5 Roadster was going to get an upgraded battery pack because...Tesla said so. Now I really have no idea if, a few years from now, my 1.5 battery will be repairable OR replaceable.

How much will Tesla care about 200,000 Model S owners after they've sold 10 million Model 3's? That's the question.

It might seem obvious that Tesla will care about Model S for many years to come, but that's how the v1.5 Roadster reservation holders felt when they were the only Tesla customers and our at-risk deposits were funding the company. Promises were made and broken during those times. There's been a shortage of Roadster battery sheets for at least a year. We all thought the 3.0 battery meant those days would be over.

I am not aware of any additional Plan B options for 1.5 owners, nor a contact point for such concerns.

Now the picture seems pretty bleak for v1.5 owners.

Don't think it won't happen to you just because you're buying the latest and greatest thing Tesla sells today.

 

[Bradleybang]

Right here is the difference between being "Silicon Valley" and manufacturing equipment with a 15+ year life expectancy "Auto".

Not everything is perfect in growing a company from small to large. Tesla is the only automobile manufacturer to have done it in in many decades. The iterations required to become the first EV high distance manufacturer is mind boggling.

I have a 2.0 and I hope those first 500 get some long term fix. However, I do remember us early 2.0's getting a last minute price hike.

 

[tomsax]

I have a 2.0 and I hope those first 500 get some long term fix. However, I do remember us early 2.0's getting a last minute price hike.

Actually, it was the v1.5 owners who got the after-the-last-minute price hike, as in after we had locked in our options and pricing. Musk himself described it as a bait-and-switch in Revenge of the Electric Car. If you haven't seen the film, I recommend it.

 

[doug]

I have a 2.0 and I hope those first 500 get some long term fix. However, I do remember us early 2.0's getting a last minute price hike.

Actually, it was the v1.5 owners who got the after-the-last-minute price hike, as in after we had locked in our options and pricing. Musk himself described it as a bait-and-switch in Revenge of the Electric Car. If you haven't seen the film, I recommend it.

A dark time in TMC/Tesla history: Tesla Increases Prices for Existing 2008 Orders

 

[Bradleybang]

@Tomsax. I forgot there were you last 1.5s that also got the increase.

 

[smorgasbord]

How much will Tesla care about 200,000 Model S owners after they've sold 10 million Model 3's? ...

Don't think it won't happen to you just because you're buying the latest and greatest thing Tesla sells today.

+1!

 

[tomsax]

A dark time in TMC/Tesla history: Tesla Increases Prices for Existing 2008 Orders

Wow, I didn't know it was still possible to view that thread. It's a classic. The best part is a TMC thread about the fertilizer totally hitting the fan and it has a whopping 19 pages of comments, as I write this on page 95 of a thread about a battery upgrade that's been taken a bumpy ride on the Tesla PR road.

 

[dpeilow]

So is there a get out clause in the BRO that says something like "sorry, we couldn't do it, here's your money back"?

 

[Bradleybang]

Wow, I didn't know it was still possible to view that thread. It's a classic. The best part is a TMC thread about the fertilizer totally hitting the fan and it has a whopping 19 pages of comments, as I write this on page 95 of a thread about a battery upgrade that's been taken a bumpy ride on the Tesla PR road.

TMC also has grown in this small passing of time.

 

[smac]

So is there a get out clause in the BRO that says something like "sorry, we couldn't do it, here's your money back"?

I asked this previously, Bonnie said there wasn't an explicit "buyout/break clause"

But someone would have to post up the entire small print. There very well maybe wording stating the limit of Tesla's liability to that of the original purchase price.

(Common practice in software agreements for example).

 

[dpeilow]

Wow, I didn't know it was still possible to view that thread. It's a classic. The best part is a TMC thread about the fertilizer totally hitting the fan and it has a whopping 19 pages of comments, as I write this on page 95 of a thread about a battery upgrade that's been taken a bumpy ride on the Tesla PR road.

That thread literally went reductio ad Hitlerum

 

[smac]

A dark time in TMC/Tesla history: Tesla Increases Prices for Existing 2008 Orders

That thread is remarkably prescient in places Timescales nailed for the S, predicting ongoing PR and comms problems.

One thing that was interesting you actually posted:

"Tesla Admits Huge Losses on First Cars, Boosts "Option" Prices to Recoup" Green Car Advisor

Tesla spokeswoman Rachel Konrad said the company isn't afraid of a slew of breach of contract lawsuits because "we were very careful" from the beginning to say in all contracts "that prices can change."

It's kinda sad they have to make a statement like that.

 

[bonnie]

I asked this previously, Bonnie said there wasn't an explicit "buyout/break clause"

But someone would have to post up the entire small print. There very well maybe wording stating the limit of Tesla's liability to that of the original purchase price.

(Common practice in software agreements for example).

It's one page long & simple language. A significant part of my career has included reviewing contracts. And yes, I read the 'entire small print'. But contract wording does change - people need to check their own contract if they have a concern.

 

[smorgasbord]

Not knowing the terms of the 1.5 BRO, is there a penalty if Tesla is unable to deliver on the 53kWh?

Sort of. If they can't get the battery right (my wording), they'll refund the money you spent on the BRO (as adjusted by the timing discount/surcharge).

I can post an un-executed version from 2010-2011 if people really want, and someone doesn't warn me off it.

 

[Dean412]

The reality Roadster owners will have to face one day is Tesla has failed to support the Roadster charging needs as indicated by Tesla's reluctance to install HPC 70 AMP charging connections at all of the Supercharger stations, as they were being installed across the USA and elsewhere.
Elon Musk referred to Range Anxiety not being an issue with the Model S buyers but has failed the Roadster owners who enjoy driving beyond the cities we live in, therefore the very individuals who supported Tesla by purchasing the Roadsters in the beginning, NOW have Range Anxiety and lack of future Battery support.
Not only has this battery upgrade failed us , but it also has lessened the resale value of our Roadsters.
The day will come when all 2400 Tesla Roadster owners will be the proud owners of a Tesla Roadster Paper Weight and we can then share our stories of how we enjoyed driving the first All Electric Tesla Roadsters and how Tesla and Elon failed promises ended Tesla Motors and the Electric Automobile Dream.

 

[smac]

Sort of. If they can't get the battery right (my wording), they'll refund the money you spent on the BRO (as adjusted by the timing discount/surcharge).

I can post an un-executed version from 2010-2011 if people really want, and someone doesn't warn me off it.

So like an insurance policy where instead of paying out they repay your premiums if that is cheaper... I think I get it.

I'm amazed Bonnie didn't pick up on this, obviously she has a different contract.

Maybe you could both post a copy so we can compare?

 

[bonnie]

So like an insurance policy where instead of paying out they repay your premiums if that is cheaper... I think I get it.

I'm amazed Bonnie didn't pick up on this, obviously she has a different contract.

Maybe you could both post a copy so we can compare?

Mine doesn't have that clause. And no, I'm not posting the contract. The only reason to ask is either you don't believe me (and I don't care if that's the issue, since it doesn't impact me) or idle curiosity. There is no value in posting.

If there were a legitimate need from a fellow Roadster owner, I'd obviously share privately.

 

[smac]

Mine doesn't have that clause. And no, I'm not posting the contract. The only reason to ask is either you don't believe me (and I don't care if that's the issue, since it doesn't impact me) or idle curiosity. There is no value in posting.

If there were a legitimate need from a fellow Roadster owner, I'd obviously share privately.

Partial idle curiosity. Partly I genuinely would consider a Roadster to replace my S + Lotus, and it's material to my decision. I really don't want something unsupportable.

If one person's BRO does have a repayment condition (as Smorgasbord is suggesting), and I believe you yours doesn't, there obviously have been changes over time. This muddies the waters even further for potential future owners, as some contracts (and by inference cars they belong to) are worth more than others!

 

[bonnie]

Partial idle curiosity. Partly I genuinely would consider a Roadster to replace my S + Lotus, and it's material to my decision. I really don't want something unsupportable.

If one person's BRO does have a repayment condition (as Smorgasbord is suggesting), and I believe you yours doesn't, there obviously have been changes over time. This muddies the waters even further for potential future owners, as some contracts (and by inference cars they belong to) are worth more than others!

They no longer offer the Battery Replacement Option. If you are concerned regarding a used Roadster that you are considering & the owner purchased the option, as with all contracts, you should review the one that applies.

Contracts definitely change with time. There is no question of that. Also by geographic location. (I don't believe the BRO was offered in your geo, btw, so probably all a moot point.)

 

[Botbldr45]

I had a conversation with Rockville SC about my recent "tete a tete" with a Ford truck. I casually ask if he had any info on the battery upgrade. He may have chosen poor wording when he said that the " process will be very time consuming since the battery and PEM will be sent to Freemont to be changed. We have no real dates and can't really schedule until They ( Tesla) tells us. They are waiting to see how much interest there is before they decide to go ahead with it"

Not sure what that means........