Roadster 3.0

[stopcrazypp]

Is it me or is it a little crazy that this costs $29,000 especially when Tesla just received 400,000 reservations for the Model III starting at $35,000? Regardless, I've plunked my Model III deposit down. I'll probably get this battery upgrade eventually. I just hope it's still offered once I decide to upgrade.

Tesla is using completely different battery cells here (ones that are compatible to the old Roadster pack design) and has lots of engineering overhead to pay for such a small volume of battery packs. They might still be losing money on this, even at this price.

 

[bobinfla]

Thanks for the report. Don't know where I am on the list, but looking forward to getting the phone call some day (though I think being outside of California puts me to the end of the line).

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

So, I don't even have my car in hand yet, but I'm already thinking about the 3.0 upgrade. I see Tesla is accepting orders, a 5k down-payment, which puts you on the waiting list.

My questions are as follows:

• Has anyone actually received the upgrade yet? If so, your experience?
• I just bought a 2.5 Roadster Sport with 18k miles on it for 70k. If I buy the 3.0 upgrade, costing 30k, what do people think that will do to resale value? I'm guessing (pure random guess) that it would make my 70k roadster worth probably about 90k. But, if none have ever been put on the market yet, of course that's just a guess.
• The list of upgrades includes an 'aero kit', that certainly sounds cool. If you are going to dump 30k more money into your vehicle, certainly you would like it to 'look different/cooler' for your effort. I did some google searches, but couldn't actually find any pictures of what a 3.0 aero-kit looks like. What other badging or other visual cues will make the 3.0 upgraded roadster look unique?
• Is it assumed that there is no 'rush' on upgrading your vehicle? Meaning, Tesla will likely keep this offer open for years to come so people don't end up with bricked cars?

Thanks,

John

 

[gregd]

Hi John.

There's a long thread on the 3.0 upgrade, which you might want to review. A lot of it is historical speculation, but interesting to watch the progression from announcement to the reality of delivery. They're different.

The currently available 3.0 upgrade is only the battery. Not a small thing in itself, but also not the whole package as originally envisioned. The aero upgrades, tires, bearings and brakes, etc. are still being awaited. We all understand the concepts, and even have suggested some off-the-shelf options, but haven't seen anything endorsed or provided by Tesla that we can order.

I'd recommend you give yourself some time with the Roadster, to understand how it fits within your driving needs, and what options you have for charging. There are two big reasons to get the 3.0 battery, at least as I have it boiled down: 1. You need the extra 100 miles of range to enable you to do something you can't practically do otherwise (emphasis on practical - there are always charging options, but often they're not ones you can count on or exercise within the logistics framework of the trip). or 2. Your battery is shot and you might as well get the big one instead of repairing the old one.

In reverse order, Tesla has stated that long term, the 3.0 battery will be the replacement option for those needing new batteries. It's not something you need to jump on right now (emotional needs not withstanding). But if your car does need a new ESS (doubtful), that could be something to do now. I don't think it will give you a 1:1 increase in resale value, but certainly would be of significant value to the right buyer. 20k is probably as good a guess as any.

But the big criteria, for me at least, is the first one. Would it enable you to do something you can't do otherwise? For example, 99% of the trips I take are local, mostly back and forth to work. No problem there. But the radius of trips I might like to take include traveling to my daughter's place, which is just outside the current range of my car. She lives 214 miles away, according to Google, and my car's Ideal Range-mode range is down to about 220 (the car has 37k on its original battery). So, unless I get a charge along the way, I can't quite make it there, and worse, the return trip is uphill, so that's definitely too far. BUT, if I look at the overall trip logistics, I still need to charge the car at her place, and she only has a 120v outlet in her garage. Yes, there are probably some Level 2 outlets at a shopping mall, but that's still a 7 hr event, and probably not practical. With either battery, recharging becomes a multiple day exercise, and unless I take a day or two off work, that's not going to fit. So, the new battery wouldn't actually enable the trip. Now, when I retire some day, that might make sense, so the money is being saved for a future purchase. Just don't need it right now.

Hope this helps,

Greg.

 

[AEdennis]

@John W. Ratcliff - Per @gregd - Here's the thread

[MODS, feel free to move to that thread and delete my message.]

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

Ok, I realize I'm joining this thread pretty late but, hey, I just got my car. I reread all of the posts for the past few months; but I didn't go back to the very beginning.

I see now that some people are finally getting the battery upgrade, meaning 'it's real', but what I wanted clarification on is what is the final decision on the aero and tire upgrades?

I understand people are not getting them 'yet' (just the battery) but does your 29k include it at some point in the future, or have they just entirely backed off of that promise?

 

[ecarfan]

I see now that some people are finally getting the battery upgrade, meaning 'it's real', but what I wanted clarification on is what is the final decision on the aero and tire upgrades?

No word from Tesla on when or if the other parts of the 3.0 package will be available.

The $29K price is only for the battery.

 

[andybm3]

Exactly how I think about - glad its here but unless i need the range why bother, on the other hand if something goes wrong with my current battery I am glad this is available

Hi John.

There's a long thread on the 3.0 upgrade, which you might want to review. A lot of it is historical speculation, but interesting to watch the progression from announcement to the reality of delivery. They're different.

The currently available 3.0 upgrade is only the battery. Not a small thing in itself, but also not the whole package as originally envisioned. The aero upgrades, tires, bearings and brakes, etc. are still being awaited. We all understand the concepts, and even have suggested some off-the-shelf options, but haven't seen anything endorsed or provided by Tesla that we can order.

I'd recommend you give yourself some time with the Roadster, to understand how it fits within your driving needs, and what options you have for charging. There are two big reasons to get the 3.0 battery, at least as I have it boiled down: 1. You need the extra 100 miles of range to enable you to do something you can't practically do otherwise (emphasis on practical - there are always charging options, but often they're not ones you can count on or exercise within the logistics framework of the trip). or 2. Your battery is shot and you might as well get the big one instead of repairing the old one.

In reverse order, Tesla has stated that long term, the 3.0 battery will be the replacement option for those needing new batteries. It's not something you need to jump on right now (emotional needs not withstanding). But if your car does need a new ESS (doubtful), that could be something to do now. I don't think it will give you a 1:1 increase in resale value, but certainly would be of significant value to the right buyer. 20k is probably as good a guess as any.

But the big criteria, for me at least, is the first one. Would it enable you to do something you can't do otherwise? For example, 99% of the trips I take are local, mostly back and forth to work. No problem there. But the radius of trips I might like to take include traveling to my daughter's place, which is just outside the current range of my car. She lives 214 miles away, according to Google, and my car's Ideal Range-mode range is down to about 220 (the car has 37k on its original battery). So, unless I get a charge along the way, I can't quite make it there, and worse, the return trip is uphill, so that's definitely too far. BUT, if I look at the overall trip logistics, I still need to charge the car at her place, and she only has a 120v outlet in her garage. Yes, there are probably some Level 2 outlets at a shopping mall, but that's still a 7 hr event, and probably not practical. With either battery, recharging becomes a multiple day exercise, and unless I take a day or two off work, that's not going to fit. So, the new battery wouldn't actually enable the trip. Now, when I retire some day, that might make sense, so the money is being saved for a future purchase. Just don't need it right now.

Hope this helps,

Greg.

 

[asgard]

I am in the queue for the upgrade. So if I understand correctly, my 29K gets me about 80 additional range miles, it won't charge on a J1772 and the CAN does not work and Tesla charging stations won't work either (with Henry's Model S to Roadster adapter).
This seems like a downgrade to me. I might cancel my order if this isn't fixed.

 

[AEdennis]

@asgard not exactly.

I am in the queue for the upgrade. So if I understand correctly, my 29K gets me about 80 additional range miles, it won't charge on a J1772 and the CAN does not work and Tesla charging stations won't work either (with Henry's Model S to Roadster adapter).
This seems like a downgrade to me. I might cancel my order if this isn't fixed.

Per @hcsharp

Why didn't they just use your CAN SR? That's what a lot of people are doing.


The CAN SR was tested on a 2.5 that was upgraded to a 3.0 at multiple HPWC locations. I never got a detailed report except to say it worked and "performed as expected".

I'll make some inquiries. Don't hold your breath.

@ggr reported some challenges, but perhaps things are better now.

 

[ggr]

I am in the queue for the upgrade. So if I understand correctly, my 29K gets me about 80 additional range miles, it won't charge on a J1772 and the CAN does not work and Tesla charging stations won't work either (with Henry's Model S to Roadster adapter).
This seems like a downgrade to me. I might cancel my order if this isn't fixed.

The J1772 CAN works just fine. I did have trouble with the Model S HPWC CAN, but Henry says that others have reported it working. I haven't had a chance to try it out again.

 

[asgard]

Bringing the discussion back to the 3.0 battery thread, one of the reasons I jumped on this upgrade is that I think it's now or never. I expect future support for the Roadster 1.5-2.5 to essentially die out as Tesla R&D and service focuses on newer models. To put it another way, their staff isn't going to get promoted for inventing the coolest upgrade for a Roadster but they certainly will for the Model X or 3 ;-)

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

>>I expect future support for the Roadster 1.5-2.5 to essentially die out as Tesla R&D and service focuses on newer models.

I certainly hope this is not the case! It would be a public relations disaster IMO. The fact that they are even offering the 3.0 upgrade is certainly a very good sign that they are committed to keeping our cars running.

I used to own a 1985 Ferrari 308 and, let me tell you, Ferrari was quite happy to sell me parts for my ancient automobile for an insane price.

 

[ElectricLove]

You will find that most of staunch advocates who own Roadsters would rather keep their stock values up than "cause a scene" (PR disaster for poor/no support)... This makes it difficult to say that there is a ton of motivation for TESLA to keep our cars in serviceable. In fact, about a month ago I learned some information that would "really hurt" TESLA in the PR department, I'm not even an investor but I am still "pro-tesla" enough to just keep my mouth shut about it. We can only hope for things to work out, at this point I can't say I'm confident in TESLA to do the right thing in the future for us Roadster owners.

Look at it like this; TESLA is more similar to Apple than Chevrolet... How "serviceable" is your 10 years old iPad? (interesting point that the first iphone wasn't even made 10 years ago) Does Apple care? Cars are inherently different but TESLA is a silicon valley child, they honestly don't "get it"... yet...

I believe this is why we need TESLA to make the EOL products open source (in every way imaginable, including board layouts and firmware releases) so people can either maintain themselves or other organizations can step in and service the vehicles. Imagine what happens if just 1% of Roadsters have switchpacks fail at ~10 year mark? Or PEM failures at ~10 year mark... That's 200 switchpacks or PEMs, do you think they have that many waiting for your vehicle? 1% failure rate @ 10 years of age is not out of line for these types of electronics.

 

[asgard]

The 3.0 upgrade is only a subset of what was promised a year ago. If this was a priority they would be touting it as the highest range commercially produced passenger EV or something to that effect.

I took the factory tour a couple of days ago and there is a sad-looking Roadster which they talk about for a few seconds before spending the rest of the hour on the X, S and all the upcoming 3. That's when the reality hit me hard.

They have nearly 400,000 Model 3 orders to fill and the people who placed these orders won't wait for 5 years.

The day is not far when we will be on our own for support. It may be 3 years down the road. But we have time to prepare for it and figure out decent aftermarket support options.

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

The 3.0 upgrade is only a subset of what was promised a year ago. If this was a priority they would be touting it as the highest range commercially produced passenger EV or something to that effect.

I took the factory tour a couple of days ago and there is a sad-looking Roadster which they talk about for a few seconds before spending the rest of the hour on the X, S and all the upcoming 3. That's when the reality hit me hard.

They have nearly 400,000 Model 3 orders to fill and the people who placed these orders won't wait for 5 years.

The day is not far when we will be on our own for support. It may be 3 years down the road. But we have time to prepare for it and figure out decent aftermarket support options.

Wow, I just spent $70,000 and haven't even received my car yet, and you make it sound like I bought a, soon to be, paperweight.

This is very upsetting, because I really thought, due to its rarity, this car would hold it's value.

Yikes!

 

[AEdennis]

Wow, I just spent $70,000 and haven't even received my car yet, and you make it sound like I bought a, soon to be, paperweight.

This is very upsetting, because I really thought, due to its rarity, this car would hold it's value.

Yikes!

Not a paperweight... But during your due diligence, you should read up on the challenges that others have faced with regard to parts, etc.

 

[bonnie]

Wow, I just spent $70,000 and haven't even received my car yet, and you make it sound like I bought a, soon to be, paperweight.

This is very upsetting, because I really thought, due to its rarity, this car would hold it's value.

Yikes!

It's not a paperweight. Everyone has a slightly different opinion. You're going to love your new-to-you Roadster & you will own one of the cars that made Tesla possible.

I've had stellar service with my Roadster and my experience is that Roadster owners are held in high regard. That "sad looking Roadster" that asgard referred to on the tour was not exactly as he describes. That's a piece of company history sitting there, I believe it's the first prototype/clay model of the Roadster. So yes, it's well worn. But def not sad looking. Tesla tour folks went looking specifically for that - not just some 'sad looking Roadster'. (Sorry you didn't understand what you were seeing, Asgard!)

Most new Tesla employees can talk knowledgeably about the S and the X, not the Roadster. It's not because no one cares, it's because they're involved with getting the new models out and all their training is focused on that. The people who have been at Tesla longer (mostly in management now) do not have that problem & can speak quite knowledgeably.

Enjoy your car.

 

[bonnie]

Bringing the discussion back to the 3.0 battery thread, one of the reasons I jumped on this upgrade is that I think it's now or never. I expect future support for the Roadster 1.5-2.5 to essentially die out as Tesla R&D and service focuses on newer models. To put it another way, their staff isn't going to get promoted for inventing the coolest upgrade for a Roadster but they certainly will for the Model X or 3 ;-)

You forget the the folks who opted for the Battery Replacement Option still have a few more years left that would make the upgrade a necessity. I'm holding out til year 10, or 2022, before taking replacement. So that's not quite 'now'. And my contract says it won't be 'never'.

 

[asgard]

Bonnie:
Yes, I was aware of the clay model but the other real Roadster next to it was less well maintained than most forum owners cars
Hopefully you are right about support but statistics seem to be against us.
Don't get me wrong - I haven't parted with my Roadster even though it would have helped nicely offset a Model S purchase.
That does not change the parts difficulty. When a defective battery had to be replaced under warranty, I ended up with a refurbished (i.e. reused) rather than a rebuilt battery.