Roadster 3.0

[John W. Ratcliff]

The car I just sold to buy my Roadster was a 20 year old 1996 Acura NSX-T. Even though Acura hasn't even sold the car in over a decade, they treated me like royalty every time I went in.

Before I bought the Roadster I talked to a friend of mine who owns one, and he was very positive about it. I have another friend, the guy I actually bought the NSX from, who was an early Model-S adopter. He raves all the time about the quality of Tesla service.

As Tesla grows, I hope they treat the owners of their early sports cars the way Acura treated me.

 

[markwj]

I took the factory tour a couple of days ago and there is a sad-looking Roadster which they talk about for a few seconds before spending the rest of the hour on the X, S and all the upcoming 3. That's when the reality hit me hard.

Contrary view: the Tesla employee who took me on my factory tour had just purchased a CPO roadster and he was enthusiastic about what the company was doing and how they were supporting the roadsters going forward.

 

[asgard]

Their service for the Roadster has been very good at the Palo Alto center where some of the original Roadster technicians from their Menlo Park "factory" went. I don't know much about the service at other parts of the world.

 

[gregd]

Bonnie:
Yes, I was aware of the clay model but the other real Roadster next to it was less well maintained than most forum owners cars
Hopefully you are right about support but statistics seem to be against us.
Don't get me wrong - I haven't parted with my Roadster even though it would have helped nicely offset a Model S purchase.
That does not change the parts difficulty. When a defective battery had to be replaced under warranty, I ended up with a refurbished (i.e. reused) rather than a rebuilt battery.

I took the tour a couple of months ago, and asked about the other car. It was one of the pre-production prototypes. A few parts missing (needed for something specific early on, according to the tour guide - they are not raiding it for "spare parts"). It was on display next to the clay model to show the progression from inert clay to one of the the hottest and most unique cars on the planet. That enabled the S, and the X, and coming soon, the 3.

I usually keep my cars for 15+ years, and have every intention to do the same with my Roadster. As Bonnie says, our experience with the local service department has been exemplary (we use the same one). No worries there. And way down the road, the neat thing about the Tesla cars is that a lot if it is regular electronics. You can't exactly go to Radio Shack and pick up a part, but on the other hand, you won't have to go find a blacksmith either. Lots of pretty common parts make up these cars, and the big item (the battery) should have a good life, given that it's been fully refreshed.

 

[Habious]

And way down the road, the neat thing about the Tesla cars is that a lot if it is regular electronics. You can't exactly go to Radio Shack and pick up a part, but on the other hand, you won't have to go find a blacksmith either.

While that's true, even a brilliant electronics tech needs a service manual or schematics to work from, to troubleshoot...and that's something that Tesla doesn't seem interested in sharing.

"We're not going to fix your PEM (we'll just charge you $8K for a replacement refurbished one - assuming one is available)...and we're not going to give you the information you need to fix it yourself."

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

Well, it's not just us. Tesla is probably going to sell a million model 3 cars before all is said and done. If, all of the sudden, stories are published about people who bought earlier model cars and are being abandoned, that would be a public relations disaster.

 

[ecarfan]

My recommendation is that any discussion of the 3.0 tire type stays in this thread.

Wow, I just spent $70,000 and haven't even received my car yet, and you make it sound like I bought a, soon to be, paperweight.

This is very upsetting, because I really thought, due to its rarity, this car would hold it's value.

As you have seen from the responses, your Roadster is certainly not doomed to becoming a costly paperweight.

As to its future value, there is no way to reliably forecast what a used car will be worth many years from now, except to say that in most cases it will be worth less. In a some cases it will be worth more.

Some feel the Roadster will hold value or increase because of its rarity and the special place it holds in Tesla history. That may well happen. I think it might not. The next generation Tesla Roadster, whenever it arrives, will be so much more sophisticated and capable (full autonomous AP, much better handling, even quicker, less power limiting, a multitude of luxury features, more comfortable and spacious, bigger trunk, etc.) that I suspect original Roadster values will decrease. But I could be wrong...

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

Well, Acura is finally delivering their new NSX after a many year wait. Rather than it causing the prices of the original NSX to fall, just the opposite is happening. The guy who just bought my NSX already owns *six* of them, and he primarily owns them as an investment.

I think the only threat to the long term value of the Roadster is if they become impossible to maintain or are otherwise abandoned by Tesla service.

Other than that, they are just too rare and too much a part of history to go below a certain level so long as they are well maintained and don't have a ridiculous number of miles on them. More likely, if a new Roadster came out, it would increase the value of the existing Roadsters, as is currently happening with the Acura NSX is my best guess.

I just paid $70k for a 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport 2.5 with 18k miles on it. I figure I can drive it for three more years and, worst case scenario, take about 10k in depreciation. I do believe the older 1.5 models are going to continue to depreciate, but the 2.5 sport, as the last model year made, are likely to hold their value more strongly. For example an early 90's NSX goes for about $40k these days, but a 2005 NSX goes for $80k or more.

Maybe the comparison between the two cars isn't equivalent; time will tell.

I didn't buy my Roadster to 'make money' but it is extremely important to me not to lose any, or at least not that much. I'm hopeful that the bulk of the deprecation has been taken out of them.

Had I bought the Ferrari 360, which was my original plan, it would definitely have held it's value long term. I just decided I would take a chance on a high maintenance cost with the Roadster versus the guaranteed high maintenance cost of the Ferrari.

 

[wiztecy]

I do believe the older 1.5 models are going to continue to depreciate, but the 2.5 sport, as the last model year made, are likely to hold their value more strongly.

I actually think the opposite. I think the earlier 1.5's, especially the VP's and Sigs will hold a higher value as the Roadster becomes more a collectors item. The 2.x versions were the cost reduction models with some minor improvements, but the company had to reduce cost and raise prices to survive.

As for depreciation, I think they all have depreciated the same to some respect, but actually the Sports have depreciated the most if you look at the price paid out the door and today's used roadster market prices. But really they're close.

The 1.5/2.x is a personal preference type of thing, I had a 2.0 for a few weeks and was happy to get back into my 1.5 that was for sure.

Lastly the 1.5's don't have the leave cleaning / dirty PEM issues that the 2.x's ended up with. I'd go crazy if my PEM clogged up as often as the 2.x's do.... I do my own maintenance, when I performed my 1st cleaning of the PEM right on a 1 year interval it was as clean as can be. I'm going over 2 years now, PEM temps are all normal, so most likely won't pull the PEM out until the 3 year interval and save the wear and tear on my PEM connections/connectors.

But in the end one should buy and drive the car that they love.

 

[AEdennis]

I actually think the opposite. I think the earlier 1.5's will hold a higher value as the Roadster becomes more a collectors item. The 2.x versions were the cost reduction models with some minor improvements, but the company had to reduce cost and raise prices to survive.

As for depreciation, I think they all have depreciated the same to some respect, but actually the Sports have depreciated the most if you look at the price paid out the door and today's used roadster market prices. But really they're close.

The 1.5/2.x is a personal preference type of thing, I had a 2.0 for a few weeks and was happy to get back into my 1.5 that was for sure.

Lastly the 1.5's don't have the leave cleaning / dirty PEM issues that the 2.x's ended up with. I'd go crazy if my PEM clogged up as often as the 2.x's do.... I do my own maintenance, when I performed my 1st cleaning of the PEM right on a 1 year interval it was as clean as can be. I'm going over 2 years now and most likely won't pull the PEM out until the 3 year interval.

But in the end one should buy and drive the car that they love.

Plus some of us ended up with 1.5 Sigs that had Celebrity first owners. (ours had won an Oscar)

 

[ElectricLove]

I actually think the opposite. I think the earlier 1.5's, especially the VP's and Sigs will hold a higher value as the Roadster becomes more a collectors item. The 2.x versions were the cost reduction models with some minor improvements, but the company had to reduce cost and raise prices to survive.

As for depreciation, I think they all have depreciated the same to some respect, but actually the Sports have depreciated the most if you look at the price paid out the door and today's used roadster market prices. But really they're close.

The 1.5/2.x is a personal preference type of thing, I had a 2.0 for a few weeks and was happy to get back into my 1.5 that was for sure.

Lastly the 1.5's don't have the leave cleaning / dirty PEM issues that the 2.x's ended up with. I'd go crazy if my PEM clogged up as often as the 2.x's do.... I do my own maintenance, when I performed my 1st cleaning of the PEM right on a 1 year interval it was as clean as can be. I'm going over 2 years now and most likely won't pull the PEM out until the 3 year interval.

But in the end one should buy and drive the car that they love.

Agree, I think the 1.5 is more collectible and I've noticed the quality is better on the 1.5 components, though build quality is about the same in fit/finish department. Have owned/driven both a 2.0 and 1.5, have worked on 1.5/2.0/2.5 (no 3.0 yet) and this seems to be consistent across the spectrum.

I think the performance difference between sport and non-sport is so indistinguishable that it mitigates the price difference; I mean if they are the same price naturally the buyer is going to pick the sport but I don't think its worth very much more, especially when neither is "top dog" anymore anyways, the P90DL whips their buttocks...

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

Shows what I have to learn. In my experience when buying used cars, getting the most recent model which has had the benefit of having all of the bugs worked out of it is the best. The sport 2.5 certainly commands the highest value in the market currently. I get that it cost more to begin with but, frankly the Roadster was originally obscenely over priced. That was the plan, it was the crazy science experiment to get Tesla off the ground and sell overpriced toys to rich people.

But, today, in the used car market 'normal' people are buying them, people who care about depreciation, maintenance costs, people who think 60-70k is a *lot* of money. It certainly is to me. This car costs twice as much as the most expensive car I have ever owned in my life.

If the value drops to 60k after driving it a few years, I'm totally cool with that. But if it drops more than that I'm going to be kicking myself in the ass. Because I could have bought a brand new, under warranty, Alfa Romeo 4c if I was willing to eat that much depreciation.

 

[AEdennis]

Shows what I have to learn. In my experience when buying used cars, getting the most recent model which has had the benefit of having all of the bugs worked out of it is the best. The sport 2.5 certainly commands the highest value in the market currently. I get that it cost more to begin with but, frankly the Roadster was originally obscenely over priced. That was the plan, it was the crazy science experiment to get Tesla off the ground and sell overpriced toys to rich people.

But, today, in the used car market 'normal' people are buying them, people who care about depreciation, maintenance costs, people who think 60-70k is a *lot* of money. It certainly is to me. This car costs twice as much as the most expensive car I have ever owned in my life.

If the value drops to 60k after driving it a few years, I'm totally cool with that. But if it drops more than that I'm going to be kicking myself in the ass. Because I could have bought a brand new, under warranty, Alfa Romeo 4c if I was willing to eat that much depreciation.

It's a depreciating asset. Enjoy it and drive it. If it ends up being collectible. That's a bonus.

 

[John W. Ratcliff]

My last two cars I sold for more than I paid for them, after driving them for over 15k miles each. I was hoping to get a similar result from the Roadster. Maybe I made a mistake. Time will tell.

 

[JRP3]

My last two cars I sold for more than I paid for them, after driving them for over 15k miles each. I was hoping to get a similar result from the Roadster. Maybe I made a mistake.

Hoping for a third miracle after getting two probably was a mistake, but maybe you'll get lucky once again. Selling a car for more than you paid for it is an extremely rare event.

 

[AEdennis]

Hoping for a third miracle after getting two probably was a mistake, but maybe you'll get lucky once again. Selling a car for more than you paid for it is an extremely rare event.

We bought our Roadster during the "glut" of CPO in late Summer 2013.

It's probably worth more than what we paid. But, no way are we selling my wife's car.

 

[asgard]

I view the Roadster as a once-in-long-time (maybe lifetime) driving experience. I too bought my 1.5 during the glut of 2013 and the 1.5 was good enough for me. Sure, the 2.0 or 2.5 are improvements but I personally can't differentiate the performance and never drive my car at those limits anyway. The 1.5 was every bit as much fun to drive as the 2.5. When you get behind the wheel, the 2-DIN head unit, the sport cosmetics and other goodies just don't seem to matter.

If you bought your for any reasons other than the experience, such as collectible value, may luck be on your side.

Maybe the Gen 2 Roadster will wipe out that value, maybe not. If you think you will enjoy driving it every day and will find random reasons to just drive it, this may the car for you.

 

[dpeilow]

Thread getting a bit off topic.

Can we have some 3.0 info again now? Like what are the PEM changes? Any obvious ways the software is different? Is the ratio between standard and range mode the same?

 

[hcsharp]

Bringing the discussion back to the 3.0 battery thread, one of the reasons I jumped on this upgrade is that I think it's now or never. I expect future support for the Roadster 1.5-2.5 to essentially die out as Tesla R&D and service focuses on newer models. To put it another way, their staff isn't going to get promoted for inventing the coolest upgrade for a Roadster but they certainly will for the Model X or 3 ;-)

You're forgetting that several Tesla engineers drive Roadsters for their daily commute. They will never let support for it die. Elon himself is also very committed to keeping support for the Roadster which is why he initiated the 3.0 upgrade.

 

[Doug_G]

Moved a bunch of tire chat to 2.0 / 2.5 Roadster / Roadster Sport Tire Thread