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Roadster 3.0

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Got my notification today from Tesla that they will be refunding my deposit for the 3.0 battery because I have a 1.5 Roadster.
I also got the same email from Tesla today, about 4 hours after I emailed Tesla asking if it was true that the 1.5 Roadster could not be upgraded to the 3.0 battery. The email from Tesla offered no explanation why the battery upgrade was not possible for my 1.5 (I had requested an explanation), nor did it respond to my question about when the other components of the 3.0 upgrade would be available (aero body mods, wheel bearings, brake mods, and new tires).
I plan to purchase the other parts of the 3.0 upgrade when they become available. I am hoping they will, in total, improve my usable range by 20% or more. My current 'real world' range on a standard charge at 65mph is about 140 miles (I avoid doing a range charge if at all possible). A 20% increase on 140 miles would be 28 for a total of 168 and that would be helpful to me. My Roadster is my daily driver and my work commutes vary, ranging from 30 to 145 miles.
 
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Let me see if I have this straight:

The battery upgrade is not for the 1.5 models.
The battery upgrade requires some upgrade to the PEM.
The 1.5 PEM uses some A/C Propulsions technology.
Elon had some not so nice things to say about A/C propulsion.

Does that mean the PEM upgrade for the 1.5 might require some deal with A/C Propulsion?
Might this answer some questions?
 
Because it seems like they have to re-engineer the PEM for the 3.0 and hence if they also have to re-engineer the 1.5 PEM for those that take up the offer, then we are talking a subset of a subset of a subset. They may just decide it's cheaper to take the flak, even if that is from their very early adopters.

Right, that would be the situation. IIRC the 1.5 PEM used the AC Propulsion patent, and the 2.0 PEM was completely re-engineered from the ground up so they could avoid paying those royalties. So the design is very different; changes made to make the 2.0/2.5 work with the new cells would not be applicable.
 
...Does that mean the PEM upgrade for the 1.5 might require some deal with A/C Propulsion?...

I think that unlikely. I think Tesla used some (licensed) AC propulsion style technology in the original 1.5 PEM, but didn't require ACP to help them directly with ongoing engineering. I would think whatever licensing was done is already done and doesn't need anything further (even if Tesla decided to modify their 1.5 PEMs.) I think the issue is probably more about the flexibility of the 1.5 to accept whatever change is needed to support the new cells. Perhaps the 2.x PEM is more flexible, or they just don't have the engineering resources assigned to make these modifications to both types of PEMs.
 
I also got the same email from Tesla today, about 4 hours after I emailed Tesla asking if it was true that the 1.5 Roadster could not be upgraded to the 3.0 battery. The email from Tesla offered no explanation why the battery upgrade was not possible for my 1.5 (I had requested an explanation).


I also just received, unsolicited, the reversal of my 3.0 order:

Thank you for your recent Tesla Gear order for the Roadster3.0 Battery Upgrade. Our records show that you purchased this for VIN 000467,which is a Roadster 1.5, and unfortunately, the upgrade is onlycompatible with Roadster 2.0 and higher. We will be cancelling your deposit shortlyand you will receive an email notification once it has been processed. If youare purchasing the upgrade for a different Roadster, please let us know as soonas possible.

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.

Best Regards, ....


To me, this is not only stunningly disappointing - it is disingenuous and disreputable to have hyped it so intensively for so long without disclosing the exclusion of 1.5's.
 
Can a 1.5 Roadster use a 2.0 battery?

If so, I am going to propose the theory of my 3 way battery swap again. ( Not saying I am currently interested ).
Party A has a "bad" battery. Party B has a good one. B's battery goes to A. A's battery goes to Tesla, B gets a 3.0 battery.
Everybody pays less for their batteries.

I am going to keep bringing this up because I am mildly interested in the 3.0 battery upgrade, but not at full price when my existing battery is within 5% of new.
 
Can a 1.5 Roadster use a 2.0 battery?
I suspect the answer is "no" because the 1.5 does not have a separate conventional 12V battery like the 2.0/2.5 cars, so the 1.5 needs two ESS sheets dedicated to providing 12V power to various components in the car, and the 2.0 battery cannot provide that.
Can a 1.5 use a 2.0 or 2.5 PEM? (I'm assuming not).
I would also assume the answer is "no".
Even if a 1.5 owner had available to them a 2.0 ESS and a 2.0 PEM they would also need to modify their car to contain a separate 12V battery to power the 12V components which would mean a major rewiring of the car. It's just not feasible.
 
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To me, this is not only stunningly disappointing - it is disingenuous and disreputable to have hyped it so intensively for so long without disclosing the exclusion of 1.5's.
Yes, if Tesla had disclosed the inability of the 1.5 cars to accept the 3.0 battery last year, and explained why, it would have been easier to accept.
I would like to say that I am still holding out hope that sometime in the future the 1.5 owners will be offered a battery upgrade with more modern cells, but at this point it seems unlikely.
...the upgrade offer could boost the value of all Roadsters. I think the upgrade will be like putting in a pool at your house. You're going to spend $30,000 on it, but it's only going to raise the resale value $10-15k. If upgraded Roadsters hit the market with asking prices higher than that, well, a rising tide lifts all boats.
I simply do not see any way that the 3.0 battery upgrade for the 2.0/2.5 cars can possibly increase the market value of the 1.5 cars.
I think it highly likely that the market value of the 1.5 cars has just dropped by thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars. As a 1.5 owner I say that reluctantly, but it seems inescapable. If I was in the market today for a Roadster and I read this thread there is no way I would buy a 1.5.
 
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I really hope there is a plan B for 1.5 owners as we have been some of their biggest fans. I have taken my Roadster and other EV'S to dozens of car shows, handed out hundreds of "Why Electric" brochures, coordinated 3 national plug-in day events. I have talked at environment and transporting conferences singing the praises of Tesla and EV's. But if they leave us out to dry the promotion will stop. I talked the city into 6 free charging stations as well as a local restaurant. And after 4 years of effort my employer is installing 16 charging stations. I have helped sell 3 Model S, 3 Leaf's and 2 Volts. So we are your fans don't hang us out as I am afraid you will lose some of your biggest supporters. As I for one will move onto other activities.
 
I notice the Tesla Shop page now says

Available for Roadster 2.0 and higher only.

Unbelievable this was sat on until after the launch.

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I'm a bit concerned that some person is going to manually weld 6831cells in this upgrade pack.
 
I notice the Tesla Shop page now says "Available for Roadster 2.0 and higher only. "
Unbelievable this was sat on until after the launch.
This morning when emailing with someone at Tesla named Krista about my defunct 3.0 battery order I strongly recommended doing just that. Nice to know someone took action. A year late.
I'm a bit concerned that some person is going to manually weld 6831cells in this upgrade pack.
Wait, can I do that? Can anyone provide instructions, pictures? I last used a soldering gun in junior high school shop class, I'm sure I can do that!
Kidding...
 
I suspect the answer is "no" because the 1.5 does not have a separate conventional 12V battery like the 2.0/2.5 cars, so the 1.5 needs two ESS sheets dedicated to providing 12V power to various components in the car, and the 2.0 battery cannot provide that.
I would also assume the answer is "no".
Even if a 1.5 owner had available to them a 2.0 ESS and a 2.0 PEM they would also need to modify their car to contain a separate 12V battery to power the 12V components which would mean a major rewiring of the car. It's just not feasible.

Can you use 2.0 ESS sheets in a 1.5 ESS battery?
 

That was "like for like" though.

Right now as I see it, without an upgrade for a 1.5, at best this means a 7yr old 1.5 could get a bit longer lease of life by using the cells out of a low mileage 2012 car. :(

It seems obvious this 400 mile battery is simply not appealing enough to those with a battery in rude health, so how on earth Tesla are going to get enough quality cells to make good on the BRO is anyone's guess :(
 
There are still various makes of 2400 mAH 18650s out there for sale. What's to stop someone doing a DIY job? Perhaps someone should give Battery M.D., Inc. | Independent Battery Testing | High Voltage Battery Repairs | Battery Laboratory a call.

On the other hand, perhaps Tesla is holding out until they have the Gigafactory online. Then they can do a run of 3 million cells with the same characteristics as the original.

I am afraid we will not be so lucky. But they can release the shop manual for the 1.5 cars so we can attempt to rebuild packs ourselves. If they will not support us then let us support ourselves.
 
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Yikes- I’m reading everything here from “smells fishy” and “a communications goat” to “stunningly disappointing” and “disingenuous and disreputable” – not too reassuring for a new 1.5 owner… Yet beyond the disappointment about the much-hyped upgrade (I was prepared for the bad news- see my prior post about a warning from a service tech 6 weeks ago not to expect that a 1.5 could be upgraded), the real question is:
What exactly is Tesla’s plan for the 1.5 batteries, many of which will be hitting the roughly “expected” 100K battery life pretty soon, given their chronological age?

Can those in the know please enlighten us newbies on exactly what the situation is with 1.5 battery replacement?
Replacement without upgrade would still be a fine option if priced reasonably. After all, the car has more than enough range for most of us most of the time, and the 1.5s have a number of nice features even compared with the 2.0 and 2.5. (For example, I love the faux gearshift, the VDS on the left, and the smooth front end. Plus I appreciate the legacy history of the first 500 – if only Tesla did too!)

My 1.5 battery – though apparently a replacement since it has a “Refurbished” sticker on it- has excellent range thus far - 190s ideal on a standard charge, 230s ideal on a range charge. This is consistent with the car’s low (still less than 2K) lifetime miles. But as has been noted, as we move out past 7 years we are moving into “uncharted territory.” Let’s hope the Plug-In America data showing mileage (as a proxy for number of charging cycles) as the primary indicator of battery capacity continues to be correct even at more advanced battery ages.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy my beautiful Roadster 1.5 immensely – perhaps even moreso if its eventual fate is to be “bricked” and sold for parts! Though seriously I think it is unlikely that Tesla will completely abandon this legacy vehicle, and as long as a battery replacement option is and remains available for the 1.5s, they will likely retain or even increase in value.
 
I am afraid we will not be so lucky. But they can release the shop manual for the 1.5 cars so we can attempt to rebuild packs ourselves. If they will not support us then let us support ourselves.

Right, if they're going to pull stuff like this, release the support manuals. Leaving the cars unsupported and refusing to let owners support them themselves is pretty ridiculous. Especially since they've been talking about this for a year or more. It's a good thing I'm on vacation or else I'd probably be more angry.