Roadster 3.0

[jaanton]

Seems sad that the 1.5's can not get the battery upgrade. Kind of understandable, but they are the oldest and thus need this the most.

I'm trying to remember. I thought I read somewhere that the 1.5 batteries have some kind of tap into the middle of the pack to get the standby 12v supply. The 2.x Roadsters have a separate 12v sealed battery, but the 1.5s do not. On the 2.x the 12v batteries only seem to last 3 years or less, on the 1.5s the 12v supply has I think killed whole packs by aging some bricks faster than others. I'll bet this is one complication of the 1.5 upgrade.

(Seems this has been mentioned earlier. Missed the posts.)

 

[Strib]

Well, I've received a second notification that my 3.0 upgrade order was canceled, this time with more information...

Your order #62682 was cancelled because we did not have enough stock tofulfill your order.

Your payment has been voided. Please reply to this email if you have any questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters


The candor is most reassuring.

 

[smac]

This is consistent with the car’s low (still less than 2K) lifetime miles.

Wow! I've done more on my mountain bike...

 

[wiztecy]

on the 1.5s the 12v supply has I think killed whole packs by aging some bricks faster than others. I'll bet this is one complication of the 1.5 upgrade.

No, the minimal DC 12volt load *does not* age the 1.5 packs faster. How'd you come up with that non-sense?

 

[spaceballs]

No, the minimal DC 12volt load *does not* age the 1.5 packs faster. How'd you come up with that non-sense?

The 12v load could cause these bricks to discharge first if left unplugged for extended period of time to the point where the ESS would shut down.

 

[djf]

Wow! I've done more on my mountain bike...

The first owner only put 854 miles on it in 6+ years - incredible. I'm now just over 2K after 6 weeks and plan to ENJOY it! (as long as the battery lasts :smile: )

 

[Strib]

The first owner only put 854 miles on it in 6+ years - incredible. I'm now just over 2K after 6 weeks and plan to ENJOY it! (as long as the battery lasts :smile: )

Wow... I thought I was fortunate when I bought my #467 this January with only 2800 miles!

Just to caution you - age as well as miles and charge cycles seems to affect the CAC. Mine declined from 203 standard charge ideal miles to 183 standard charge ideal miles in the past 3000 miles.

All the best to you.

 

[wiztecy]

The 12v load could cause these bricks to discharge first if left unplugged for extended period of time to the point where the ESS would shut down.

I'd suspect it would throw the pack out of balance (mainly sheets 1&2), but not cause the 1.5 car's ESS to irreversibly deteriorate faster as implied by the poster. Right, it would cause the bricks to slightly discharge faster (worse case being in desert heat just sitting), however, if the Roadster is unplugged for that long of a time there's most likely bigger problems. Such as neglect of the car. We've seen that people have bricked 1.5, 2.0, and 2.5 Roadsters. And if the data points show that the 1.5's are higher, I'd suggest that's only due to the fact that they can't "phone home" when the ESS is low.

And in my case I've seen my CAC drop to to as low as 146, and now I'm back to 153 (doing cool-downs at low amps whenever I get a chance and no Range mode charges over a year) so I can say that the 12v internal system in the ESS is not affecting my Roadster in a negative way.

 

[ML Auto]

I can come with only one reason that the update is not for the 1.5. The new batteries are using the Model S chemistry. At 3.6V vs 3.7V, the charging voltage would need to be reduced. That is probably why the PEM needs to be updated. While you should be able to update the extra capacity with a firmware upgrade, the charge voltage reduction would require some hard parts inside the PEM. The 1.5 using the A/C propulsion design for charging would require different parts inside the PEM than the later 2.0/2.5. I know people have discussed the upgrade not using Model S cells, but if the Model S cell is 3100mah , that is "roughly 40% more energy" as Tesla states.

 

[dhrivnak]

I would suggest other 1.5 owners reach out to Tesla with their concern of no upgrade path. If they hear from enough from us they may reconsider. If we remain quiet we can be assured nothing will be done. Here is what I received back from my service contact.

David,

Thank you for your note. Glad to hear that your charging has held true over the last couple of months. I do understand your concern with regards to the Roadster 1.5 battery. I recognize that our 1.5 owners paved the way for Tesla and continue to be some of our biggest advocates. That being said, I am able to add an internal concern to your account that will note your interest in a potential upgrade. This will be forwarded to our engineering department for documentation. I am not aware of any additional Plan B options for 1.5 owners, nor a contact point for such concerns. I do appreciate your time and support. Please let me know if you need anything else from me.

Best,

 

[ecarfan]

David, that response from Tesla is not encouraging to this 1.5 owner, at least.
I have already expressed my dissatisfaction to Tesla.
And I want information about the other components of the 3.0 upgrade!

 

[ecarfan]

I received exactly the same order cancellation email. It reads like an automatic email for any order that Tesla cancels for any part.

Well, I've received a second notification that my 3.0 upgrade order was canceled, this time with more information...

Your order #62682 was cancelled because we did not have enough stock tofulfill your order.

Your payment has been voided. Please reply to this email if you have any questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters


The candor is most reassuring.

 

[JRP3]

I can come with only one reason that the update is not for the 1.5. The new batteries are using the Model S chemistry. At 3.6V vs 3.7V, the charging voltage would need to be reduced. That is probably why the PEM needs to be updated. While you should be able to update the extra capacity with a firmware upgrade, the charge voltage reduction would require some hard parts inside the PEM. The 1.5 using the A/C propulsion design for charging would require different parts inside the PEM than the later 2.0/2.5. I know people have discussed the upgrade not using Model S cells, but if the Model S cell is 3100mah , that is "roughly 40% more energy" as Tesla states.

The Model S cells need to be over 3.2ah to get near 85kWh. They could be the same chemistry but probably not the same cells.
However, I don't understand what you mean by reducing the charging voltage. I think the finish charging voltage is the same.

 

[djf]

Re the Tesla service contact's response posted by dhrivnak:
" I am not aware of any additional Plan B options for 1.5 owners, nor a contact point for such concerns. I do appreciate your time and support."

That is a non sequitur. The second sentence does not follow from the first. The first sentence seems to typify lack of appreciation of the 1.5 owners.

All in all it is looking so bad for the moment that I'm sure it has to and will get better! I'll eagerly await a word from Tesla with new developments on 1.5 battery replacement options and hopefully even an upgrade path some day.

 

[wiztecy]

I agree with David, we all should pull together and voice as a whole support for the 1.5 Roadsters for the new ESS or an equivalent upgrade path. Possibly a new thread, although I hate to create new threads, in order to keep everything organized. Also finding the appropriate email contacts would be key.

I'm totally surprised Tesla by their email response didn't expect any negative reaction by the 1.5 owners as well as the majority of the Roadster community.

 

[Doug_G]

I agree with David, we all should pull together and voice as a whole support for the 1.5 Roadsters for the new ESS or an equivalent upgrade path. Possibly a new thread, although I hate to create new threads, in order to keep everything organized. Also finding the appropriate email contacts would be key.

I'm totally surprised Tesla by their email response didn't expect any negative reaction by the 1.5 owners as well as the majority of the Roadster community.

I think that is a reasonable case for a new thread.

 

[scapescape]

Point of contact for 1.5 complaints

I agree with David, we all should pull together and voice as a whole support for the 1.5 Roadsters for the new ESS or an equivalent upgrade path. Possibly a new thread, although I hate to create new threads, in order to keep everything organized. Also finding the appropriate email contacts would be key.

I'm totally surprised Tesla by their email response didn't expect any negative reaction by the 1.5 owners as well as the majority of the Roadster community.

Thanks Dave. I agree. I'll write today if we can figure out an email address. I posted in the company forum as well

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with David, we all should pull together and voice as a whole support for the 1.5 Roadsters for the new ESS or an equivalent upgrade path. Possibly a new thread, although I hate to create new threads, in order to keep everything organized. Also finding the appropriate email contacts would be key.



Thanks Dave. I agree. I'll write today if we can figure out an email address. I posted in the company forum as well

 

[spaceballs]

I can come with only one reason that the update is not for the 1.5. The new batteries are using the Model S chemistry. At 3.6V vs 3.7V, the charging voltage would need to be reduced. That is probably why the PEM needs to be updated. ...

If that was the case a BMB firmware update could make the PEM behave to handle the new cells, i.e. create a voltage mapping lookup table (or algorithm) for the new cells.

 

[richkae]

Maybe the plan for replacing batteries for 1.5 Roadsters is to cobble together good packs out of the ones returned by 2.+ Roadsters when they upgrade to the 3.0 battery?

Alternatively, what if Tesla does come out with a plan for a 3.0 upgrade for 1.5 Roadsters and it includes an additional $10K of work - put in a 2.+ PEM and 2.+ 12V system?
How excited would you be about $39K?

 

[smac]

Maybe the plan for replacing batteries for 1.5 Roadsters is to cobble together good packs out of the ones returned by 2.+ Roadsters when they upgrade to the 3.0 battery?

The cynic in me says that's the plan.

So whilst Tesla are doing this "at cost" and don't make profit on the price of the new pack, they do make "profit" on the BRO deal as the cells are effectively F.O.C.