Roadster 3.0

[hcsharp]

As I've had my second-gen 3.0 battery for a few months now, I'm noticing some differences from the original pack. The weather was hot over the weekend so I wanted to perform a cooldown charge after a long drive. The pack was about 34C. I started the charge session at 16A and switched it to range mode to get the AC to kick on and cool things down. The car charged OK but the AC would not start. I know it was working because I had been using it to cool the cabin throughout the drive, and there were no error messages. Every 10 - 15 minutes I would switch back to std mode for 2 - 3 minutes before reverting to range mode. The AC would not kick on. Eventually I raised the charging rate to 24A which caused the pack to heat up to 36C, and low and behold the AC came on and cooled it down to about 34C. It never came on again before the charge finished at 35C despite having it in range mode for most of the session.

I can only wonder if the newer version of the 3.0 packs have a higher thermal tolerance and the firmware has been updated to allow higher temps before calling for cooling. This may be true for all 3.0 packs but I haven't heard anyone mention it over the last 6 years. Has anyone else noticed this or is it unique to my car?

 

[DeedWest]

As I've had my second-gen 3.0 battery for a few months now, I'm noticing some differences from the original pack. The weather was hot over the weekend so I wanted to perform a cooldown charge after a long drive. The pack was about 34C. I started the charge session at 16A and switched it to range mode to get the AC to kick on and cool things down. The car charged OK but the AC would not start. I know it was working because I had been using it to cool the cabin throughout the drive, and there were no error messages. Every 10 - 15 minutes I would switch back to std mode for 2 - 3 minutes before reverting to range mode. The AC would not kick on. Eventually I raised the charging rate to 24A which caused the pack to heat up to 36C, and low and behold the AC came on and cooled it down to about 34C. It never came on again before the charge finished at 35C despite having it in range mode for most of the session.

I can only wonder if the newer version of the 3.0 packs have a higher thermal tolerance and the firmware has been updated to allow higher temps before calling for cooling. This may be true for all 3.0 packs but I haven't heard anyone mention it over the last 6 years. Has anyone else noticed this or is it unique to my car?

Interesting observation here. I should be getting my (now second) “next-gen” R80 within the next two weeks, so I’ll be sure to report on its cooling habits while charging.

 

[chrisro]

Hello, 3.0 are same LG cells as before!!! Also there is same firmware as from 8 years ago.

 

[eHorses]

As I've had my second-gen 3.0 battery for a few months now, I'm noticing some differences from the original pack. The weather was hot over the weekend so I wanted to perform a cooldown charge after a long drive. The pack was about 34C. I started the charge session at 16A and switched it to range mode to get the AC to kick on and cool things down. The car charged OK but the AC would not start. I know it was working because I had been using it to cool the cabin throughout the drive, and there were no error messages. Every 10 - 15 minutes I would switch back to std mode for 2 - 3 minutes before reverting to range mode. The AC would not kick on. Eventually I raised the charging rate to 24A which caused the pack to heat up to 36C, and low and behold the AC came on and cooled it down to about 34C. It never came on again before the charge finished at 35C despite having it in range mode for most of the session.

I can only wonder if the newer version of the 3.0 packs have a higher thermal tolerance and the firmware has been updated to allow higher temps before calling for cooling. This may be true for all 3.0 packs but I haven't heard anyone mention it over the last 6 years. Has anyone else noticed this or is it unique to my car?

I have first gen R80 and your observation is accurate. What’s the firmware version? In FL summer it will not cooldown enough to sleep after a long drive even on range charge. I would manually try to get the AC to initiate cooling by turning charging on and off (I’ve not install @ML Auto ac switch mod, yet). I’ve found that you need to wait until the fan(s) stop spinning completely (pump will still be running) when you manually stop the charge before you restart; otherwise, the car will not be tricked into thinking it’s a “new” charge session and start first AC cooldown. It seems that it cool on 240v at either 16 or 24 amps if it decides to initiate the AC. If you’re waiting for 5-10minutes and it has not start AC after you‘ve manually start charging than it will not start cooling thinking it’s on the “old“ charge session.

 

[gregd]

Hello, 3.0 are same LG cells as before!!! Also there is same firmware as from 8 years ago.

So, how have they (or have they really) addressed the rapid CAC decline?

 

[Roadster]

Also @chrisro, any updates on this project?

 

[hcsharp]

I have first gen R80 and your observation is accurate. What’s the firmware version? In FL summer it will not cooldown enough to sleep after a long drive even on range charge. I would manually try to get the AC to initiate cooling by turning charging on and off (I’ve not install @ML Auto ac switch mod, yet). I’ve found that you need to wait until the fan(s) stop spinning completely (pump will still be running) when you manually stop the charge before you restart; otherwise, the car will not be tricked into thinking it’s a “new” charge session and start first AC cooldown. It seems that it cool on 240v at either 16 or 24 amps if it decides to initiate the AC. If you’re waiting for 5-10minutes and it has not start AC after you‘ve manually start charging than it will not start cooling thinking it’s on the “old“ charge session.

Interesting. So the R80 pack circulates above 30C just like it did with the original pack, but it won't initiate cooling unless it's over 35C. Sounds like a recipe for accelerated pump wear.

 

[dhrivnak]

Interesting. So the R80 pack circulates above 30C just like it did with the original pack, but it won't initiate cooling unless it's over 35C. Sounds like a recipe for accelerated pump wear.

Possibly. I did notice that my 3.0 pack would circulate nearly all summer and the AC cool down did not seem to work as well with the old pack. But I did not collect data like you did.

 

[dpeilow]

Hello, 3.0 are same LG cells as before!!! Also there is same firmware as from 8 years ago.

This is interesting. Have you opened one up and seen the cells?

 

[dpeilow]

As I've had my second-gen 3.0 battery for a few months now, I'm noticing some differences from the original pack. The weather was hot over the weekend so I wanted to perform a cooldown charge after a long drive. The pack was about 34C. I started the charge session at 16A and switched it to range mode to get the AC to kick on and cool things down. The car charged OK but the AC would not start. I know it was working because I had been using it to cool the cabin throughout the drive, and there were no error messages. Every 10 - 15 minutes I would switch back to std mode for 2 - 3 minutes before reverting to range mode. The AC would not kick on. Eventually I raised the charging rate to 24A which caused the pack to heat up to 36C, and low and behold the AC came on and cooled it down to about 34C. It never came on again before the charge finished at 35C despite having it in range mode for most of the session.

I can only wonder if the newer version of the 3.0 packs have a higher thermal tolerance and the firmware has been updated to allow higher temps before calling for cooling. This may be true for all 3.0 packs but I haven't heard anyone mention it over the last 6 years. Has anyone else noticed this or is it unique to my car?

I wonder if this is an error, and the higher temperatures are being the rapid CAC drop?

 

[smorgasbord]

Possibly. I did notice that my 3.0 pack would circulate nearly all summer and the AC cool down did not seem to work as well with the old pack. But I did not collect data like you did.

My second-gen 3.0 setup is running OK on battery temps, but my PEM still runs towards the hotter side, causing the fans to come on sooner and for longer than my original pack setup. I have the dual blower retrofit, which is supposed to keep things cooler, but it is louder - which is a shame since the car is otherwise pretty quiet. Passengers have commented on the fan noise.

 

[chrisro]

This is interesting. Have you opened one up and seen the cells?

Yes.

 

[gregd]

So, what IS the difference between 3.0 and 3.0v2?

 

[DeedWest]

So, what IS the difference between 3.0 and 3.0v2?

The new iteration is supposed to be the same cells, but without the issues that a small batch of owners experienced on the first iteration. Apparently quite a few first-gen R80 packs featured a bad batch of cells in them causing the degradation. This explains why some owners didn’t have the degradation issues, but many others did.

 

[chrisro]

So, what IS the difference between 3.0 and 3.0v2?

Absolutly nothing!!! Cell design is bad. They are charging up to 4.35v and this is causing quick degradation.

 

[augkuo]

This R80 up for auction in August down in Monterey -

2010 Tesla Roadster R80 3.0 | Monterey 2022 | RM Sotheby's

2010 Tesla Roadster R80 3.0 for sale at RM Sotheby's Monterey

rmsothebys.com

 

[smorgasbord]

Hello, 3.0 are same LG cells as before!!! Also there is same firmware as from 8 years ago.

Absolutly nothing!!! Cell design is bad. They are charging up to 4.35v and this is causing quick degradation.

Almost certainly not, and No and No:

First, think about it: If the cells are the same and the firmware is the same, then what is telling them to charge to 4.35v?

Second, from where is Tesla sourcing cells that were first available in 2006? I'm not sure if they were LG or Panasonic originally, but either way those cells have not been made in years and are no longer available.

These are dubious claims with nothing to back them up.

Third, I know the firmware claim to be false, as my 3.0v2 equipped Roadster got updated to firmware 4.8.0, then 5.1.2 and then to 5.2.0 as part of the battery upgrade. It was on 4.6.8 since 2014. This is from my Roadster's log files and the VDSParser program.

Fourth, here's a photo of my VDS showing the "ESS SOC" screen:

I did a road trip to the Tesla Takeover, so there are some Range charging sessions in there. Notice the battery voltages don't go above 4.1V. Indeed, Tesla had previously published a 4.15 volt limitation on its Roadster cell charging, even in Range mode: A Bit About Batteries

Whatever problems Tesla had/is having with 3.0 pack upgrades, use of the same cells and same firmware is not the cause.

 

[smorgasbord]

OK, someone off-board pointed out that the "same cells as before" probably doesn't refer to the original cells as I interpreted it to mean, but same cells as the initial 3.0 battery upgrades.

If so, I have no evidence to confirm or deny that claim. However, the firmware is clearly not 8 years old and my VDS hasn't shown any charging to more than 4.1 volts.

 

[eHorses]

My 3.0 v1 is on FW v5.1.2 and I’ve never seen the voltage on ESS SOC screen >4.1v on standard or range charging.
I wonder if tesla SC would update the FW to v5.2.0 for my v1 3.0 ESS? I assume there’s improvement over v5.1.2.

 

[smorgasbord]

My second-gen 3.0 setup is running OK on battery temps, but my PEM still runs towards the hotter side, causing the fans to come on sooner and for longer than my original pack setup. I have the dual blower retrofit, which is supposed to keep things cooler, but it is louder - which is a shame since the car is otherwise pretty quiet. Passengers have commented on the fan noise.

Just an update on this. While the driver side blower fan was pretty clean, the passenger side was full of leaves and other organic stuff. I blew it out completely and now my car is quiet once again. Yeah!