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Roadster battery valuation...

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by ElectricLove, May 3, 2016.

  1. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    We have a 2.5 Roadster salvaged but with a healthy battery (was never left sitting b/c we bought directly from the body shop/insurance carrier), it charges to 172 miles and CAC is about 141, its a 2012 battery. I'm wondering what sort of value everyone thinks this battery would have on the market? We aren't selling it at this time so don't make me offers, just curious what everyone thinks this might be worth...

    The specific questions (to me) are;

    1. Would anyone want to buy a 2.5 battery when the 3.0 battery is now available? And obviously this is determined by price (ie. if it is $1K vs $30K I think most would buy the 2.5 instead)... so where is the magic number potentially?

    2. Are there people out there who are not able to buy batteries from TESLA for their vehicle (for whatever reason, like salvage title) who would weigh in on what they feel the value of these batteries would be to them?

    3. This question is not so much related but in same topic; what would TESLA's reaction be to a vehicle getting the 3.0 battery installed after an intentionally weak battery was installed in the vehicle? (ie. scenario where individual A wants a 3.0 battery but his is still good, and individual B has a POS battery only giving him 60 miles range... so A sells his battery to B with a core exchange and then proceeds to TESLA to swap out his now POS battery with the 3.0 one) I've seen people discuss/offer this but I don't know that I've seen much on how TESLA would react to the scenario...
     
  2. Habious

    Habious Member

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    Interesting questions.

    I think for question #1, there is absolutely a market. Considering Tesla wants $40K for a replacement 2.0/2.5 battery (if they're still selling them), and $29K for a 3.0 battery, if mine were dead, I'd love to have an option to pick up a "used" battery for $10K, installed.

    <skipping question #2 because I don't have a dog in that fight, so can't answer>

    As for question #3, it's a very good question...but it's one that I don't think anyone here would have the answer to. What's Tesla's reaction? You'd have to ask Tesla. I've asked the same question in the JdeMO thread - What will Tesla have to say about making modifications to the battery/PEM? Are they OK with it? The most-common response seems to be "They shouldn't have a problem with it". And while I agree that they SHOULDN'T, that doesn't actually answer the question of WILL they have a problem with it.

    As you're well aware, @ElectricLove , Tesla can...and WILL...put a car on their "we ain't gonna touch that thang" list (it's an industry term) if they feel that the car is far enough beyond original factory specifications. Now, up until now (as far as I know), this has only applied to wrecked and repaired cars. But, I'm willing to bet that someone can intentionally modify their Roadster enough that Tesla would look and it and go "Nope. No way. We're not touching that thing." The question then becomes - where is that line? And that's a question that ONLY Tesla can answer.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Different people will place widely varying values. There is no way to answer your question reliably because there have been so few sales of used Roadster batteries, and the availability of the 3.0 battery means that most sales that have taken place are not comparable.

    So. You are "just curious" but you aren't selling it. Yet.

    That's a pretty low CAC. My opinion of your battery's value is "not much". As for the scenario you describe in point #3 of your post, I would say Tesla may well not view that in a positive light. And I wouldn't blame them.

    In my opinion you are not doing yourself any favors by floating the idea of trying to trick Tesla.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    @ecarfan, I hope you realize I am not the originator of that idea to "trick Tesla"; I have seen others posting that exact offering, I'm not looking at buying a 3.0 battery so I'm consequently not looking seriously at actually doing that (swap batteries pre-3.0 upgrade), just wondering if anyone has actually seen it happen at this point and/or discussed with TESLA and has found out whether it matters to them. Reality is as the 3.0 batteries become prevalant the other battery bricks/blades will become defunct and worthless to TESLA, so not sure how much "value" they are putting on getting back good ones, now obviously the BMB/BSM/DC-DC are all components they'd probably rather have in working condition but the actual battery cells... IDK...

    @Habious; I think I'd agree that $10K would be a very reasonable price for something like this, it doesn't really compare to the $40K from TESLA though since people don't have any reason to buy that over the $30K 3.0 (unless they are just totally uninformed/aware of what they are doing)... Very interesting point that TESLA may start throwing people on their DNS (Do Not Service) list simply due to modifications of their vehicles, it seems like a horrible possibility but entirely within the tesla-mantra.

    It's so very frustrating dealing with a new automaker trying to carve their way out in the industry, I hope 40 years from now we can look back at these infant-days and say we are glad they made it through those dark times! The fact that this question is even being posed shines so much light on TESLA's infancy issues. (it wouldn't even be a concern for any other vehicle manufactured by a company who sells cars for <$100K on average) I just hope that these kinds of things don't hurt TESLA too badly, I don't give a crap about their stock valuation but I do care that they successfully place millions of good quality EV on the road (and keep them there!). I have serious concerns about this kind of stuff becoming more widely known than it is already and how that will affect the demand for Model 3's, there are very few consumers who wouldn't care that the company is so heavy-handed and uses deprivation of service (therefore serviceability) as a stick.
     
  5. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    You do understand why they do this right? Also you say they're selling $100k+ avg and this would be a moot point if it was any other car manufacturer. So the reason they're so strict is to protect themselves, they can't have some crazy garage mechanic mucking around with things and causing injury or death which results in negative headlines and negative press, let alone being sued. I'd do it too!!! Also do you understand that Tesla is NOT making money on their cars at the moment? They haven't on any.... The projection where they start having positive returns begins a little ways into the Model 3 production run. They're a new car company with new technology and investing infrastructure to support charging which costs lots of $$, its an investment. So this isn't an apples to apples comparison when you're talking about an automotive company who's already invested, already tested their product, already paid off their infrastructure. Also an ICE compared to a EV has a totally different set of liability and risks. I'm quite sure if you started mucking around with a Leaf battery or a Volt battery and the auto manufacturer found out about it, they'd find a way to remove or limit the liability risks associated with that type of tampering.

    Does this make people mad? Yes. People always want it their way no matter what, not looking at the entire picture from the other side. Will it every change policy wise, probably not due to lawyers but they may look the other way over time once they've become comfortably established as a large scale automotive supplier.
     
  6. tvuolo

    tvuolo Member

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    I sort of agree with the $10K price range, maybe up to $15K installed. But for $15K I'd want a 150+ CAC. I'd rather have a lighter battery with a similar range, though. :)
     
  7. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

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    With that CAC, and with the options available from Tesla, I would value the this battery at $2k. The only market I could see for it is someone rebuilding a salvaged, dead Roadster. Small market with better options equals low value.
     
  8. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Wow $2K? A Leaf battery pack with 1/3 the usable capacity will sell for more then that... It's not supposed to cost the same as swapping out tires for another 5K miles, this is a legitimate battery pack with 95% of original capacity, I respect your opinion but I think $2K is a bit "extremist"...

    Anyways, looks like the realistic value is probably somewhere around $10-15K, but likely would require installation to be included with that price...
     

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