TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Roadster Electrical HELP...

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by ElectricLove, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Hi guys/gals,

    Wondering if anyone has a master schematic of wiring in the roadster, especially the 12V stuff... I've got a vehicle which I can put 12V on and get the headlights and flashers going but that's about it (no VDS, no trunk/door actuators, etc)... Anyone know where things are ultimately sourced for 12V power? I can't confirm the APS is in fact in-tact or blown, however on another vehicle I've tested this same process on, it had a dead HV battery and 12V on the vehicle (via accessory battery leads) resulted in live VDS/trunk/etc...

    Any ideas?
     
  2. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida
    I always just connect 12v to the terminal block in front of the right rear wheel. The APS output is connected there. Behind the wheel well liner- its the little black box with the red wires. Has always worked for me with or without the 12v battery. The VDS takes about a minute or so to boot up.
     
  3. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Yes, same here.

    I've got a vehicle right now that is not doing anything though, VDS not booting up, neither is VMS, PEM, etc...

    I'm thinking maybe the Switchpack has a problem, we are going to investigate that component next... But that is only me guessing as to where the 12V is coming from for the "drivetrain" components!
     
  4. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida
    What's the story behind the car? Brick, wreck, theft? I'd have to know that in order to begin to help.
     
  5. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Check the inertia switch on the left side of the ESS if it was a wreck. Push down on the center of the top to reset.
     
  6. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Pflugerville
    1.5 or 2.x? The 12v systems are completely different.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,251
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    I thought ElectricLove had presented themselves as an expert in this area of working on Roadster power systems...

    Weren't you asking for people to loan you their Roadsters to work on this pack upgrade project?
    Third Party Roadster Pack? - Page 4

    I am surprised to see you got into such big trouble so early in the project.

    Sorry to hear that your car is not functioning at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If it is #114 as mentioned in EL's sig, then a 1.5...
     
  8. m0rph

    m0rph Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2014
    Messages:
    488
    Location:
    Belgium
    They are.
    But I was surprised to see that the interior lights AND the 12V socket were working fine, with the 12V battery removed from my car (a 2.5)!
     
  9. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    Virginia
    Yeah I thought so too. Weren't they fixing battery packs? Hope this occurred prior to "fix". Am wondering whether tesla will touch car that has extensive battery changes?
     
  10. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida

    The APS supplies the power to those systems, so they are active anytime the car is awake. The only advantage that I have found to having the battery in the 2.0/2.5 is for the alarm system/keyless entry. It responds faster with the battery.
     
  11. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    Wow guys why the piling on? I seems to be an honest question on how some subsystems work. Knowledge we could all benefit from
     
  12. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Pflugerville
    I thought #114 was the one he re-imported for the UK in working condition. I'm assuming (hoping) this is a different, dead Roadster.
    Have you read the history? I'm under the impression he charges people for his "expertise" and then comes and asks all of us how to deliver on his commitments. But maybe that's just my interpretation.
     
  13. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    It is a Sport, so 2.x

    - - - Updated - - -

    It is a different vehicle, not the 1.5; it is a 2.0Sport.

    I didn't come on the forum clueless as to what is going on, we just got into this vehicle yesterday for a few hours, haven't really had the time to go through it due to a myriad of other issues it has going on, my question was relatively specific, however it's quite alright if the information isn't readily available, we will, no doubt, have this figured out by the end of the day today!

    We are not working on a customer car, just to put your mind at ease on that! We are in R&D mode and learning more about more systems, we have extensively gone through the PEM and are fully prepared to take on PEM challenges, this is something new, just haven't seen it yet is all. The responses here (from some) are suggesting I should "wear a mask" and not be open in the slightest bit that I may not know 100% of everything there is to know (does anyone? I've found, Tesla themselves doesn't...), seems there are a few of us here ready to jump on these opportunities to down-play our efforts. This attitude doesn't bother me, personally, but it is less than helpful.

    Thanks for all the responses though!

    - - - Updated - - -

    We did this as one of our first diagnostic steps, it didn't change anything, the vehicle was wrecked so it was "open" but we popped it back into the "close" position (double-checked with DMM).

    I will add, we have found there is about a 60 seconds delay from applying 12V to the aux leads and getting headlight/hazards to actually turn on, which is odd...

    My thoughts are now that there is a common ground that may be missing or a blown "master" fuse...

    Thanks for the response!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bricked battery for sure, wrecked vehicle.

    We have a spare ESS (with working APS, etc) to swap into the vehicle for testing but this does take a good portion of the day on labor so would like to explore other (simpler) options first. It seems there is either a wiring issue or component failure and wiring issues without wiring schematics is like hunting for a needle in a haystack, we'll find it but just looking for assistance from anyone who may have seen this before, component failures we can deal with more easily!
     
  14. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    Virginia
    My question was a honest one. Will tesla fix a car whose battery is messed with? That's not piling on. It's a question that anyone who utilizes their services needs to get an answer to ahead of time
     
  15. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida
    OK, now I know which one you are working on. The only main fuse is directly behind the fuse box on the right side under the dash-which is where that car has damage. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with a bricked battery, even if all the car electronics work, you won't be able to do anything without power from the ESS. The one bricked car I had even showed 35 miles range after I connected 12V, but the ESS was completely dead. There was no communication. The only thing I was able to do was enable the APS.

    That 60 second delay is very strange, as I believe the rear power junction feeds directly to the front fuse panel (thru the main fuse). With the key on and 12V applied, almost all of the fuses should have power. I would start there.
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,251
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    May not be much help, but I heard story of a body shop that disassembled a Roadster a long time ago to make molds of all the panels for a body kit.
    They managed to "power it down" when pulling everything apart, and came briefly on the forum asking for help in how to "reboot" the Roadster systems to get it going again.
    The discussion went silent after a while but my sense was that they got told "you ruined the car, so it is junk now" and may not have ever gotten help putting it back together.

    So, maybe a cautionary tale that Tesla may not be helpful once a Roadster has "gone catatonic" on someone.
    Also, powering systems down by unplugging things may not be easily reversible without approval / help from Tesla themselves.

    I know just a vague description of things... But my sense is that it isn't public knowledge how to get a Roadster going again once it has shut itself down like that.
     
  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,251
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    I spoke to a friend who managed to repair a wrecked Sport and he had these questions / suggestions:

    #1: Is the pack voltage discharged below 250V ? (If so, it will be completely shut down.)
    #2: Did you open the service panel on the PEM and check the ESS voltage there?
    #3: Did you check voltage at the service disconnect behind the rear wheel?

    If you have another ESS, can you swap it into that car, to see if everything powers up with the good ESS?

    If the ESS in the wreck is < 250V, there is some sort of "recovery mode" procedure, but apparently it is complicated.

    It may be possible to mimic a good ESS with a power supply providing more than 250V.

    But, I would assume you already know most / all of this sort of stuff from your past experience.

    In summary, he said there really is no point trying to resurrect it if the pack voltage is less than 250V.
    In that case, best to swap in a better pack, and troubleshoot from there.
     
  18. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    SW Florida

    That sounds like the one I bought-every single nut and bolt had been removed and replaced, electrical connectors and wiring damaged, it appeared the whole car had disassembled and then half-assed put back together. It only had 1500 miles and was a brick for well over two years before I bought it. I thought a school might have had it for training purposes, but some automotive company's name popped up during some previous history research.

    Unlike most other new cars, most electrical components can be swapped without any reprogramming, so bringing one back from the dead is more a matter of repairing or replacing things.
     
  19. Mark77a

    Mark77a Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset, UK
    ^This^
     
  20. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Yes, you guys are right, the ESS is dead, it is <250VDC, will have to be recovered through the external jumping method (force contactor on and charge the cells under surveillance), what I'm trying to accomplish now is simply whether the other components are in working order and how many miles on the Odometer, I'd also like to pull log files (which we can access directly off the Samsung NAND-flash in the VMS if we need to but that's more complicated!).
     

Share This Page